22 Creedmore for Coyotes

[Toby Bradshaw]

@Toby Bradshaw I was trying to say that the same weight 22 caliber bullet pushed at the same velocity would be flatter than the 6mm.

Agreed!

Admittedly I didn’t put much thought into the what it would take to reach the velocity.

It was my understanding that @urbanrifleman was making the comparison between the 6 Creedmoor and 22 Creedmoor, so I responded accordingly -- 6mm vs. .22 with the same case capacity and bullet weight.

For a coyote rifle it matters a great deal whether you plan to save the fur. I do keep the pelts, so I use a light, fragile bullet to minimize exit holes, even though wind deflection and penetration through bone suffer as a result. Light recoil is a plus, though, since I have a "carrying weight" coyote rifle.

If my priority was simply to kill coyotes in the places I typically hunt I'd be shooting a 55gr-70gr bullet at 3800-4200 ft/sec, which is prime territory for a 6mm of some flavor.

On those occasions where I have a chance to shoot coyotes at longer ranges, with the time to use a rangefinder, I employ a 6BR with 95gr Berger VLDs. Once I am into ranges that require turret-turning or holding over, absolute accuracy and wind deflection are more important to me than MPBR.

YMMV.

 

[Knifeman]

Agreed!



It was my understanding that @urbanrifleman was making the comparison between the 6 Creedmoor and 22 Creedmoor, so I responded accordingly -- 6mm vs. .22 with the same case capacity and bullet weight.

For a coyote rifle it matters a great deal whether you plan to save the fur. I do keep the pelts, so I use a light, fragile bullet to minimize exit holes, even though wind deflection and penetration through bone suffer as a result. Light recoil is a plus, though, since I have a "carrying weight" coyote rifle.

If my priority was simply to kill coyotes in the places I typically hunt I'd be shooting a 55gr-70gr bullet at 3800-4200 ft/sec, which is prime territory for a 6mm of some flavor.

On those occasions where I have a chance to shoot coyotes at longer ranges, with the time to use a rangefinder, I employ a 6BR with 95gr Berger VLDs. Once I am into ranges that require turret-turning or holding over, absolute accuracy and wind deflection are more important to me than MPBR.

YMMV.

 

[Knifeman]

I do plan on keeping the fur. My bullet of choice is a 45gr Black Hole bullet. Easy on fur and good in the wind.

 

[fredo]

22Creed makes for a nice coyote round. It's basically almost a .22-243Win, which has been a staple 'badazz' coyote schwacker for years & years...

As to the parent case argument, .224 vs. .243 caliber, myself and partners have done side by side comparisons on life size coyote silhouette targets. 3-400yards is where a 'hotrod' makes hay, so that's what we shot at.

What we've proven to ourselves is that given an equal weight bullet (75gr), a .22-243Win beats a .243Win. Similarly, a 22-243AI beats a .243AI. And the recoil is less from the .224, don't ask why?

Interestingly enough, a 'big' .224 hotrod like the .22-243AI can push a 75gr fast enough so that it matches a 55gr in drop, and beats it in the wind, once the range gets beyond 300-ish. Basically, the .224 cal flavors made hitting a 400yd coyote...EASIER. Especially so, with any tangible wind to contend with...

Again, this was deduced from direct comparisons, shooting side by side, at lifesize targets. One friend in particular was shooting a .243AI with a 55gr at warp speed, but a .22-243AI with a 75gr beat it out in those tests...

YMMV, just sayin if the .243 caliber showed it was the better mousetrap, we'd all be shootin em, instead of hot rod .224s.

If you can run a can, a 'short' barreled 22Creed will make ya real happy! But since my AO don't allow cans, gimme that long barrel and all the extra fps it can muster...

Have fun!

 

[urbanrifleman]

22Creed makes for a nice coyote round. It's basically almost a .22-243Win, which has been a staple 'badazz' coyote schwacker for years & years...

As to the parent case argument, .224 vs. .243 caliber, myself and partners have done side by side comparisons on life size coyote silhouette targets. 3-400yards is where a 'hotrod' makes hay, so that's what we shot at.

What we've proven to ourselves is that given an equal weight bullet (75gr), a .22-243Win beats a .243Win. Similarly, a 22-243AI beats a .243AI. And the recoil is less from the .224, don't ask why?

Interestingly enough, a 'big' .224 hotrod like the .22-243AI can push a 75gr fast enough so that it matches a 55gr in drop, and beats it in the wind, once the range gets beyond 300-ish. Basically, the .224 cal flavors made hitting a 400yd coyote...EASIER. Especially so, with any tangible wind to contend with...

Again, this was deduced from direct comparisons, shooting side by side, at lifesize targets. One friend in particular was shooting a .243AI with a 55gr at warp speed, but a .22-243AI with a 75gr beat it out in those tests...

YMMV, just sayin if the .243 caliber showed it was the better mousetrap, we'd all be shootin em, instead of hot rod .224s.

If you can run a can, a 'short' barreled 22Creed will make ya real happy! But since my AO don't allow cans, gimme that long barrel and all the extra fps it can muster...

Have fun!

Doesn't seem like much of a fair test. You compared a 75 grain 22 bullet to a 55 grain 6mm bullet?

 

[fredo]

Doesn't seem like much of a fair test. You compared a 75 grain 22 bullet to a 55 grain 6mm bullet?

The 'control' is the use of the same parent case (.243AI). Essentially, the playing field is 'leveled' via a near equal powder capacity.

Given that we were establishing the best use of one particular parent case, please explain how that is that not "fair"?

 

[urbanrifleman]

The 'control' is the use of the same parent case (.243AI). Essentially, the playing field is 'leveled' via a near equal powder capacity.

Given that we were establishing the best use of one particular parent case, please explain how that is that not "fair"?

Why not compare the same bullet weight and the same case? That would appear to be more an apples to apples comparison.

 

[sdbob]

I have really considered building a 22 CM on a AR10 platform. My 17 rem AR is great on those windless days and my 22-243 built on a lightweight Razor TI action is my go to gun. (Wind is always blowing) I shoot suppressed all the time so I would like to keep the barrel at 18 inches. Anyone else consider the AR option?

 

[AckleymanII]

Here is a side by side comparison of a 6.5 Creed fired in an AR with a 22/250 AI

They are kiss'en cousins, creed is 30 degree shoulder, AI is 40 degree

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the 22-243 AI and 22-243 have a lot more case capacity than the 22 Creed.

 

[fredo]

Why not compare the same bullet weight and the same case? That would appear to be more an apples to apples comparison.

Because a bullet's inherent performance potential is at the mercy of the cartridge that's pushing it. And all I care about is what flies flattest, with the least wind drift, and retains the most energy. I.e., what KILLS best in the field!
So, it only makes sense to keep case capacity as the control, and let the best bullet weight prove it's worth, ballistically. Whatever bullet works best within a desired target distance window, is the one I use...

More to your inquiry, it has already been mentioned that by default, a same weight bullet in a smaller caliber is going to be longer. Subsequently, it will have a higher b.c. than its equal weight, larger caliber brother.

Higher b.c at the same speed will net superior ballistic performance. That is pretty much a given already, therefore not really worth testing for. And if a heavier weight bullet is already established as superior, what's the point of testing who's in second, or third place?

 

[AckleymanII]

Bullets have to perform as a varmint bullet on flesh at distance with diminished velocity, and many target vld's do not kill worth a darn.

As Fredo says, "what kills the best in the field".

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I’m using a 22-250ai with 75 Bergers at 3450~

Really flat but if you plan on keeping them, I hope you can sew!

@ xswanted,.. What TWIST are you using, to get the 75 VLD's,.. to "shoot" ?? The .22-250 AI looks like the perfect case capacity for, the 75's ! I'm wanting to rebarrel to an AI on my existing .22-250 Rem 700 and was planning on, a 1-9 twist, but Berger shows, a 1-8.25 tw to be optimal for this bullet. Are you using a 1-8 ? Will, the 1-8 shoot the 55 Nosler Bal Tip's ( the lightest Bullet weight, I plan on using for Rock Chucks), "good" ? I've read good stuff on, the Sierra 69 TMK's, Coyote killing "ability" on Predator Masters ! Thanks in advance !

 

[xswanted]

@ xswanted,.. What TWIST are you using, to get the 75 VLD's,.. to "shoot" ?? The .22-250 AI looks like the perfect case capacity for, the 75's ! I'm wanting to rebarrel to an AI on my existing .22-250 Rem 700 and was planning on, a 1-9 twist, but Berger shows, a 1-8.25 tw to be optimal for this bullet. Are you using a 1-8 ? Will, the 1-8 shoot the 55 Nosler Bal Tip's ( the lightest Bullet weight, I plan on using for Rock Chucks), "good" ? I've read good stuff on, the Sierra 69 TMK's, Coyote killing "ability" on Predator Masters ! Thanks in advance !

I’m shooting an 8 twist with mine. However I’ve been told a 9 will work with the higher capacity 22’s

The 75 works amazing on coyotes at 3250 but speed it up the extra 200fps and it looks like a bomb went off. Maybe with a 9 a guy would get the spin factor so much.

I’ve not personally used 69s on coyotes. But hear there are good.

I’ve ran the 53vmax out of mine but not a 55 BT

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

A buddy of mines varmint rifle over here. Most shooting is done at night with spotlight so there is no time to range and figure stuff out, you need to point and click.

This thing KILLLLLLS!

 

[Sniper338]

You can use Creedmoor brass to form 250ai brass so basically it's a 22/250ai with 30 degree shoulder.

Yep, so... why not just go 22-250ai and use lapua brass instead... thats what I did... but peterson brass has changed the scence sice then.

22BR will be my next barrel.

 

[fredo]

Will, the 1-8 shoot the 55 Nosler Bal Tip's ( the lightest Bullet weight, I plan on using for Rock Chucks), "good" ? I've read good stuff on, the Sierra 69 TMK's, Coyote killing "ability" on Predator Masters ! Thanks in advance !

Is there any specific reason why you're wanting to shoot the 55s from this new fast twist?
Only asking, cuz the price difference between heavy & light is negligible. And, once you start to see how those 75 are superior in wind bucking & overall downrange trajectory, you're prolly gonna forget all about them 55s...

Just sayin, in the several fast twist .224 hotrods I've shot and own, not ever once did I say to myself: "boy, I'm sure wish this rig shot 55s, too"

If you have a bunch of 55s, just sell 'em off, and feed your fast twist the bullets it really wants!

 

[JRS]

You can use Creedmoor brass to form 250ai brass so basically it's a 22/250ai with 30 degree shoulder.

Isn't that going to be a bit of a tight fit?

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Is there any specific reason why you're wanting to shoot the 55s from this new fast twist?
Only asking, cuz the price difference between heavy & light is negligible. And, once you start to see how those 75 are superior in wind bucking & overall downrange trajectory, you're prolly gonna forget all about them 55s...

Just sayin, in the several fast twist .224 hotrods I've shot and own, not ever once did I say to myself: "boy, I'm sure wish this rig shot 55s, too"

If you have a bunch of 55s, just sell 'em off, and feed your fast twist the bullets it really wants!

@ fredo,.. You are right, I'll just shoot up the 55's in my AR for plinking and go with, the 69TMK's and 70 VLD's in the new 1-9 .22-250 AI barrel. I was just curious about, how well, they shot. Your post about, the same weight bullet, in the smaller Bore/Caliber, having a higher BC is "bang on" and well said ! One of, 2 reasons, why I chose, the .22-250 AI over, a 6XC, BETTER, BC's and low recoil.

 

[Hydenseek]

To me a 22 creed is +/- a 22-250ai without fireforming.

 

[snert]

Is there any specific reason why you're wanting to shoot the 55s from this new fast twist?
Only asking, cuz the price difference between heavy & light is negligible. And, once you start to see how those 75 are superior in wind bucking & overall downrange trajectory, you're prolly gonna forget all about them 55s...

Just sayin, in the several fast twist .224 hotrods I've shot and own, not ever once did I say to myself: "boy, I'm sure wish this rig shot 55s, too"

If you have a bunch of 55s, just sell 'em off, and feed your fast twist the bullets it really wants!

i have no horse in this race because I am still stuck in 1980 before there were those funky VLD thingies...but I once shot a fredo rifle with some fancy bullets and all i kept saying was "wow, the 1990's are cool".

If you got the gas to push em, run heavies.