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20 Sploder

urbanrifleman said:
1.5 to 2 grains is not TINY. That is pushing ten percent. Have you ever HAD a 223 Ackley there fella? You sure don't act like you have...

A typical 223A is 150 to 200 FPS faster with a 50 -55 grain bullet. That is not controversial in the slightest.
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What ever you want to call it, it's still a small increase and at equal pressure is good for about 100fps over the standard 223, BUT, the "improved" versions get the snot pushed out of them because the 40º shoulder and straight case hides pressure so, yes, you often hear of 2-400fps faster velocities with a 223AI.

"Have you ever HAD a 223 Ackley there fella?" Oh, you mean like this one? Only for about 15 years.
223AI2.jpg

223AI3.jpg
 
urbanrifleman said:
Yah. Got it. Thanks for playing. I am now officially stopping feeding the troll.

One thing I did like about Facebook was the BLOCK feature. "click" gone. Really nice feature. Unfortunately, these forums do not have it.
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I don't do FB so I'm not sure how y'all do it there but it seems a little childish to just "block" everyone anytime they don't agree with you or point something out. Again, I'm sorry if you feel victimized or trolled as you call it but you're wanting to just dig in and start calling me names because I'm not agreeing with you. Instead, why don't you do some actual realistic thinking on your own with an open mind. As I mentioned before, there is no magic with this stuff, it's simple basic physics and physics tells us you don't get huge gains from only changing case capacity a very small amount.
 
B23 said:
I don't do FB so I'm not sure how y'all do it there but it seems a little childish to just "block" everyone anytime they don't agree with you or point something out. Again, I'm sorry if you feel victimized or trolled as you call it but you're wanting to just dig in and start calling me names because I'm not agreeing with you. Instead, why don't you do some actual realistic thinking on your own with an open mind. As I mentioned before, there is no magic with this stuff, it's simple basic physics and physics tells us you don't get huge gains from only changing case capacity a very small amount.
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Statement, if it's simple physics, please show your work. I'd love to see the actual internal ballistic calculations and equations that apply to all rifles. Let's test it with the new .277 Fury!

Ok, question. What is the max pressure for 20-223ai?

What's the velocity differences between barrels?

Heck, what are the barrel lengths?

We on this site already know the variations between rifles, cartridges, barrels, and chronographs. I see 4200fps from Warren's 20p with a 32gr bullet. That's a 24" barrel.

4400fps from a 20-223AI doesn't make me flinch either. Heck I've seen chronographs off by more than that! urban rifleman; you'll get a PM from me; looks like a good shooter.

-Mac
 
urbanrifleman said:
Yah. Got it. Thanks for playing. I am now officially stopping feeding the troll.

One thing I did like about Facebook was the BLOCK feature. "click" gone. Really nice feature. Unfortunately, these forums do not have it.
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You can just highlight the username and click on ignore. It will hide that users posts moving forward. I’ve had to do it a couple times because of angry people.
 
mac86951 said:
Statement, if it's simple physics, please show your work. I'd love to see the actual internal ballistic calculations and equations that apply to all rifles. Let's test it with the new .277 Fury!

Ok, question. What is the max pressure for 20-223ai?

What's the velocity differences between barrels?

Heck, what are the barrel lengths?

We on this site already know the variations between rifles, cartridges, barrels, and chronographs. I see 4200fps from Warren's 20p with a 32gr bullet. That's a 24" barrel.

4400fps from a 20-223AI doesn't make me flinch either. Heck I've seen chronographs off by more than that! urban rifleman; you'll get a PM from me; looks like a good shooter.

-Mac
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I have had lots of run ins with experts in my short time having a rifle parts company.

Just let me tell you stories of guys who have a borescope and start telling me all the things they don't like about my barrels... I don't even bother discussing it any more. Total waste of time.

I certainly don't mention my 25 years as a degreed mechanical engineer in the auto, aerospace, and oil industries. Then the converstation invariably leads to the explanation that I "should know then (it's physics)". Yuppppp... it can quickly suck all the air out of the room.

I was at the range a few months ago and I spoke to one of the other members who shoots PRS, and he told me that "Seals can't shoot" (I know at least one Seal sniper and I can assure you, he can shoot).... I think that kind of sums up many of my observations in regards to "experts" in shooting. There certainly ARE experts, don't get me wrong.... obviously. I know some of them.... interestingly, they are even more criticized than others.
 
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Call me Reckless, I run them wide open! Remington 700 bolt heads alone are rated at 150,000 psi. I have had 11 barrels on one action.

Many of the custom bolt heads are not rated as high as the Remington and Winchester bolt heads.

A NASA engineer is writing a book on the strength of actions, and he told me heads were going to explode.
 
Some of you get so defensive when it's pointed out that you're achieving these levels of velocity, not because there is anything new or special about that particular cartridge, but you're achieving those velocities because of high pressure. Why is it so hard for some of you to just admit it but instead some want to pretend like oh there's no pressure present it's just a really "efficient" case design and because there's no obvious signs with my brass it's not running at high pressure.

News flash, you don't gain, hundreds, of FPS with only 1-1.2 grain more powder and if you do, high pressure exists.

I have a couple that shoot extremely well at some blazing fast velocities and even though the brass doesn't show any obvious signs of pressure I know there is no way I could be getting those velocities if they weren't. I could easily say, and that's without any pressure signs, or, it's just a really efficient case design, and we all know Lapua is tough brass but I know you can't only change the case capacity a small amount and get hundreds of FPS gains.
 
B23 said:
Ahh, so if the brass is strong as hell and can take a shit ton of abuse and "My brass is going strong" that means excessive pressure isn't present. That seems like a real piss poor way to measure pressure but, hey, if it works for you go for it. You may want to give your customers a heads up that this is how you measure pressure. You may want to increase your liability insurance policy too.
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Oh please, give it a rest. Couldn't count how many times some online know-it-all has told me I'm either lying about velocity, or gonna blow myself up. Best accuracy with AI cartridges is at the top end, and bolt pressure is very much diminished with the decreased case taper. Brass - primer and pocket are by far the weakest link in the chain and will tell you when to back off. No reason why a 223AI case in .20 cal. won't push 32's at 4000 with the right combination. Urbanrifleman isn't exaggerating. In at least 20yrs my .223AI has fired several 1000 rounds of 50gr loads at 3800 with no ill effeccts. The .223AI accuracy / field load is a 50 at 3825 and best accuracy with 40's will be anywhere from 4000 to well over 4100, just gotta find the right combination. It's no stretch for a 20cal / 32gr to be doing 4000. The sky is not falling.

*** 1 to 1-1/2gr increase is a lot in a .223 size case. Case shape does make a difference, as does brass quality.
 
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AckleymanII said:
Call me Reckless, I run them wide open! Remington 700 bolt heads alone are rated at 150,000 psi. I have had 11 barrels on one action.

Many of the custom bolt heads are not rated as high as the Remington and Winchester bolt heads.

A NASA engineer is writing a book on the strength of actions, and he told me heads were going to explode.
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You're reckless. Haha. Funny isn't it, how many times we've been called reckless - dangerous - etc by internet "expurts" for the loads or velocities we've posted.
 
Don’t like the name,reminds me of all the experts that come in to the Ford dealership and act like they are smarter than all the engineers.
Couldn’t you have called it the 20/lung blower and been really smart like our POtuS
Matt
 
FWIW -estimating pressure on someone else's setup solely based on a reported velocity with a given bullet weight doesn't usually work out very well. The person trying to estimate pressure often has no idea what freebore the rifle has, and they may not even know what powder was being used. In addition, double base powders such as PowerPro 2000MR are often capable of generating 100-200 fps greater velocity than the typical extruded single base powders used in the same cartridge, without necessarily going over MAX pressure ratings. They achieve this by altering the pressure curve...think about acceleration and the area under the pressure curve rather than ultimate muzzle velocity. This is not new information; these powders have been around for years. However, their use can sometimes come at the cost of high or erratic ES/SD values, and at the expense of blown primers when the ambient temp goes above a certain level.

Nonetheless, the brass itself is the final arbiter of excessive pressure. It will show the effects of overly hot loads, usually when the primer pockets become too loose to seat a primer after one or two firings. I know of no way to prevent excessive pressure from rendering the brass un-usable in short order if it is sufficiently high. By analogy, if someone's brass holds up to repeated (10-20+) firings, that is usually a sign that the load is not dramatically over-pressure, regardless of what the muzzle velocities may cause someone else to believe. I neither encourage nor condone shooters to run ridiculously hot loads. No one wants to be "that guy" at the range wearing an eye patch and pulling the trigger with a hook due to an accident. However, high reported velocities don't always always necessarily mean excessive pressure because you may not be privy to all the specific details of the setup and load, which matter.
 
I never said anyone was exaggerating their velocities. I actually believe they're getting 4400fps with a 32gr from a 20-223AI in what appears to be about a 24 or maybe 26 inch barrel.

BUT, if anyone thinks you can get 4400 FPS from that combination with a 32gr bullet, without, some pretty high pressures, you're delusional.

Some of y'all want to act like you've got some secret magic or you're a lot smarter than the average bear and that's why you can get these crazy fast velocities from a "improved" 223 case but the truth is you're only getting those crazy speeds because of high pressures.

Does a 223AI shoot faster than a standard 223, yes, pressure being equal about 100+/- fps. They do not shoot 200-400 fps faster unless they're loaded to much higher pressures.
 
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