1 MOA Guarantee

[DShortt]

Factory Tikka, Sako ammo, 2 different stocks, couple of months apart. Five shot group was in a Bell Carlson, 3 shot was back in the factory stock. Off bags. The factory stock shot a bit higher. View attachment 1461534

View attachment 1461535

About the only factory ammo I’ve found to be 1 MOA or less through the years is Federal 168 GMM. And even it isn’t always that in some rifles.

ETA No scope adjustment. My hand load I was working shoots to the right. I was surprised that the factory ammo was centered when I shot it.

Yes, I'm not saying it's not possible with custom reloads. But since I've never seen a manufacturer approve reloaded ammunition I can't believe that's included in their 'one MOA guarantee'.

 

[6Creed73]

I'd like to see one for myself. Factory rifle and Factory ammunition. 5 shot group. 3 different days. 1" at 100yds.

Should be a piece of cake based on what I read.

Wish I still had a private range. I'd offer $500 to anyone who could do it and I'd feed them and give them a comfortable sleeping spot for the 3 days. You mess it up once you're done though. After all, it's easy according to the lore.

If I can use my ammo with my factory rifle, I will 100% take you up on this

The rifle is a custom shop RPR and it's an MOA or less every time out.

 

[M-61]

Yes, I'm not saying it's not possible with custom reloads. But since I've never seen a manufacturer approve reloaded ammunition I can't believe that's included in their 'one MOA guarantee'.

That’s a fact. Mention ‘reload’ and you are abandoned. In a way I can’t fault them. They have no clue what anyone is actually doing.
I guess it might be like a car manufacturer warranting an engine in their car that the customer assembled. Sure you’ll get some screamers but there will be a lot of ‘grenades’out there.

 

[DShortt]

If I can use my ammo with my factory rifle, I will 100% take you up on this

The rifle is a custom shop RPR and it's an MOA or less every time out.

Factory ammo? A custom shop rig isn't exactly what I'd consider a factory rifle, either.

That Savage .243 I mentioned earlier with the oversized chamber will do that too now that it's got a Boyd's thumbhole stock and with neck sized brass but that's not within the defined parameters.

 

[6Creed73]

Factory ammo?

No, that's why I said if I can use my ammo. I don't shoot factory ammo...I have no idea how it would perform with factory ammo since I don't use it. Factory rifle though, lol

 

[DShortt]

No, that's why I said if I can use my ammo. I don't shoot factory ammo...I have no idea how it would perform with factory ammo since I don't use it. Factory rifle though, lol

Yeah. Whole different scenarios.

 

[BoydAllen]

I have been saying this for some time. Since this gentleman is or was an attorney I thought it might carry more weight than my rants about liars and never seeing a factory rifle with factory ammo achieve this at the range or in competition! Cheer's

I had a Savage single shot varmint rifle in .220 Swift, a single shot with a fluted stainless barrel and laminated stock. With premium factory ammo., three different brands, it grouped at or under .5" for five shots. I know of other factory rifles that have shot well under MOA factory ammo. You might want to consider this before being so free with calling people liars.

 

[K22]

I’ve seen a lot of factory Savages on the line shoot under 1 moa and some with factory ammo

I have too, especially 6.5 Creedmoor's with factory ammo.

 

[Fuj]

When Savage first came out with the Stealth and using Hornady
ammo, 1/2" groups were the norm. The 140 ELD ammo did it's
job. And on another note; My one Rock River EOP shoots very
tight at 100 with IMI 77gr Mod-1 military ammo.

 

[BoydAllen]

NOPE!

Danny

To put this in its proper perspective, our vice president is a lawyer. Think about that for a minute.

 

[K22]

I'd like to see one for myself. Factory rifle and Factory ammunition. 5 shot group. 3 different days. 1" at 100yds.

Should be a piece of cake based on what I read.

Wish I still had a private range. I'd offer $500 to anyone who could do it and I'd feed them and give them a comfortable sleeping spot for the 3 days. You mess it up once you're done though. After all, it's easy according to the lore.

It's not easy, or a "piece of cake" but is it possible. I spend 2 to 3 days a week at the rifle range weather permitting. I've have seen just about everything you can imagine. Some really great shooting to some really poor shooting and everything in between.

Randy, a fellow shooter, routinely shoots 1 moa at 100 yards with his Savage 6.5 Creedmoor and factory ammo. The only modification he made was installing a Timmey Trigger.

I have seen others do it also, factory rifles with factory ammo. I wouldn't say that it's happen more often than not, but it happens enough to be noticeable, by me.

Keep in mind, even though the rifle and ammo may be capable, the shooter still has to execute good form to shoot that kind of group.

 

[DShortt]

It's not easy, or a "piece of cake" but is it possible. I spend 2 to 3 days a week at the rifle range weather permitting. I've have seen just about everything you can imagine. Some really great shooting to some really poor shooting and everything in between.

Randy, a fellow shooter, routinely shoots 1 moa at 100 yards with his Savage 6.5 Creedmoor and factory ammo. The only modification he made was installing a Timmey Trigger.

I have seen others do it also, factory rifles with factory ammo. I wouldn't say that it's happen more often than not, but it happens enough to be noticeable, by me.

Keep in mind, even though the rifle and ammo may be capable, the shooter still has to execute good form to shoot that kind of group.

Even that isn't a factory rifle. That's the whole point.

A factory 1 MOA guarantee means no mods or reloading else you've violated their warranty by their own standards.

Too many people accept the idea that if they can't do it then it's their own fault. That's simply untrue. Does that mean everyone can shoot to that standard with no practice? Absolutely not! But that's the inferred claim.

 

[Knotwild]

I'm just asking: Does this count?

Remington 783

 

[K22]

I kind group factory rifle accuracy guarantees in with weather forecasts. Maybe but definitely not always.

I don't know how long you've been involved in the shooting sports, but rifles and ammo are significantly better than when I started in the mid 60's.

Many brands now have factory bedding which makes a huge difference. Also, most barrels now a days are hammer forged with less internal imperfections, some even hand lapped. With modern technology, tolerances are much tighter.

Many brands of factory ammo especially the premium brands, now have premium bullets. The Nosler Accubond and Federal Premium ammo I've seen at the range come very close to matching my reloads precision wise.

The Browning X bolts are a good example of factory bedding and very good barrels. I can't tell you why the Tikka's shoot so well, I have a bunch of them, and they all shoot well over 1 moa but that doesn't count in this debate since I do not shoot factory ammo. But it's hard to imagine them not shooting at least 1 moa with premium factory ammo.

However, I wouldn't say that it's 100% because in of the shooter variability and there is always a chance in mass production for a lemon to slip by.

 

[DShortt]

I'm just asking: Does this count?

Remington 783

It certainly might if you'd gone with 5 shot groups. Either way that's nice shooting.

 

[K22]

Even that isn't a factory rifle. That's the whole point.

A factory 1 MOA guarantee means no mods or reloading else you've violated their warranty by their own standards.

Too many people accept the idea that if they can't do it then it's their own fault. That's simply untrue. Does that mean everyone can shoot to that standard with no practice? Absolutely not! But that's the inferred claim.

The trigger replacement creates the opportunity for the shooter to shoot to the full capability of the rifle.

For example, adjusting the factory trigger of a factory rifle such as a Tikka, Remington, Weatherby, enhances the shooter's ability to take full advantage of the rifle's capability. Is that so much different than replacing the trigger? Are we splitting hairs here to make a point?

 

[DShortt]

I don't know how long you've been involved in the shooting sports, but rifles and ammo are significantly better than when I started in the mid 60's.

Many brands now have factory bedding which makes a huge difference. Also, most barrels now a days are hammer forged with less internal imperfections, some even hand lapped. With modern technology, tolerances are much tighter.

Many brands of factory ammo especially the premium brands, now have premium bullets. The Nosler Accubond and Federal Premium ammo I've seen at the range come very close to matching my reloads precision wise.

The Browning X bolts are a good example of factory bedding and very good barrels. I can't tell you why the Tikka's shoot so well, I have a bunch of them, and they all shoot well over 1 moa but that doesn't count in this debate since I do not shoot factory ammo. But it's hard to imagine them not shooting at least 1 moa with premium factory ammo.

However, I wouldn't say that it's 100% because in of the shooter variability and there is always a chance in mass production for a lemon to slip by.

Again, this isn't a personal attack on anyone. If a manufacturer is going to put out a 1 MOA.claim then in my view that shouldn't be particularly difficult to accomplish unless they note that that's not the rule, but the exception.

 

[DShortt]

The trigger replacement creates the opportunity for the shooter to shoot to the full capability of the rifle.

For example, adjusting the factory trigger of a factory rifle such as a Tikka, Remington, Weatherby, enhances the shooter's ability to take full advantage of the rifle's capability. Is that so much different than replacing the trigger? Are we splitting hairs here to make a point?

No. Factory is factory. A Timmey trigger didn't come with the rifle so I don't understand why it's a question.

 

[K22]

No. Factory is factory.

You win - resistance if futile. I need to go watch re-runs of Gunsmoke.

 

[DShortt]

You win - resistance if futile. I need to go watch re-runs of Gunsmoke.

I simply don't understand why people want to cut manufacturers slack over their accuracy guarantee. Either it works as is or you have to monkey around with it to get there. I don't see it noted where aftermarket parts or gunsmithing will be required to achieve the advertised results.
My quarrel isn't with the user. It's with the manufacturer and the misleading claim.