Barrel life 800-1100 rounds!

[jds holler]

So give or take, a dollar a shot for barrels. If the 800 rounds the article reported is correct. Yes, I'm in Houston and no chance of ever wearing out my .22 Hornet barrel I don't think. Maybe, if I could go 1500 miles and shoot varmints. I just thought it was a really interesting article on the Creedmoor clan and then read the expected life and that was a moment. I've apparently lived a sheltered life.

Leo, I'm gonna assume that you're a pretty good accountant.
As far as the lifespan of your Hornet barrel, I think you'll enjoy many years of fun with it. I think I mentioned above that my 218 Bee is around 70 years old, and I doubt that the accuracy is much different now than when it was new.
It was never a 'bench rest" quality firearm, and 1 MOA used to be pretty durned good for most rifles. It still preforms to that level, and that's after something like 2 or 3 bazillion rounds.

Depending on the bullet you're using, your velocity is maybe a little north of 3000 fps. Our Hornets, Bees, and even Vartargs are a kinder, gentler weapon for varmint destruction. And we will be blessed with long barrel life. Heck most varmints even prefer getting killed with shot from one of these sweet rifles. jd

 

[Leo_B]

Well, I do ok with ciphering. Me and Jethro paid attention to them lessons. Some of it I pull from thin air though, not empirical data. I agree though, I'll never wear out my Hornet and probably neither will my grandson in the half century or so he'll likely have to try. I plan to load from the left half of the page so 8.2gr 2400 over 50gr 2250fps or 9.0gr 2400 over 45gr 2400fps per Hornady XI. None of the paper I aim at is in too big a hurry for another hole. We'll see once I really get going, but that's the plan for now.

 

[KMW 1954]

3. I have said this about the 6MM ARC and it fits equally with the 22 ARC, it was designed for the AR15 and when used there is an excellent cartridge.

I'll ask this question once again.

6ARC, 22ARC Said to be designed for use in the AR. That is the standard argument. While the 6PPC and the 22PPC were both developed and primarily used in Bolt rifles for Bench shooting and have been widely successful for that purpose.

What I don't understand is both examples come from the same parent case family which also was not derived for use in an AR. So, I do not follow the correlation that keeps being made.

 

[David Milisock]

I'll ask this question once again.

6ARC, 22ARC Said to be designed for use in the AR. That is the standard argument. While the 6PPC and the 22PPC were both developed and primarily used in Bolt rifles for Bench shooting and have been widely successful for that purpose.

What I don't understand is both examples come from the same parent case family which also was not derived for use in an AR. So, I do not follow the correlation that keeps being made.

Yes Hornady tells us that they were based on the same case AND for the same platform, (AR15). In that mode they provide improvement over a standard 5.56 x 45 load, in THAT PLATFORM!
The 22ARC does not practically increase performance over the 5.56 x 45 in the AR15. I haven't explored any bolt thrust issues with the 22ARC however it does exist in the 6MM ARC and therefore it must be assumed in the 22ARC.
In field performance the difference between the 22ARC in an AR and the 5.56 x 45 (in my 20" Colt) is barely perceptual. In the case of a bolt rifle it can perform better than the 5.56 x 45.
Performance improvements of the 6MM ARC over the 5.54 x 45 are also negligible but more easily demonstrated. Comparing heavy match grade 22's in my 20" Colt against the 100+ grain 6MM projectiles I'm my Aero M4E. Both rifles are capable of nasal cavity accuracy, at 400 yards, the 5.56 about 10% of the weather conditions. The 6MM ARC about 90% of the weather conditions in my area.

The correlations are that they're the same base case, designed for the same pressures in the same platform (AR15) and when used there give minimal (in the case of the 22ARC) and reasonable performance improvements ( in the case of the 6MM ARC) depending on range and weather conditions. In the AR15 platform these two cases are near the practical performance level of the caliber and platform.

In bolt rifles you have the same things, same base case however NO MATTER what you do there are other cases in the same calibers that out perform them in bolt rifles.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Doesn't do anything as good as a 22BR?

In my opinion. That is correct.

 

[358WCF]

Yes, the cost to play. Could be golf course fees or one of the biggest joke hoaxes of all, cigars. I was just amazed initially with the article, an NRA article I think, saying 800-1100 rounds barrel life. That and learning what replacements cost. I'll just be back under my rock. :shrug:

Leo,

Dont believe everything you read on the internet. Were there any kind of qualifiers for the 800-1000 rd number? Slow fire, rapid fire, somewhere in between?

I traded into an old used & abused 700V at a gunshow in the late 80s for less than the cost of an action. It was factory barreled & rechambered (poorly) to 22-250 Ackley. This was pre borescope days, hell it was pre-internet days. After a good bore scrubbing & numerous adventures in creative handloading the rifle would shoot tiny little groups at giddy velocities. Think 'splodey headshots on groundhogs to 450+ yds. The Ackley & the 22 Crudmore are virtually the same cartridge, so this is pretty much apples to apples except with a slower twist I can shoot Horny's SX & Sierra Blitz (the 'splodey parts) without them spinning apart somewhere in front of the target.

According to my records, & the rifle came to me before I kept good records, I put well over 1600 rounds thru that barrel before it started losing accuracy a year or so back. Then it suddenly just stopped shooting at all. The rifle now has a 12 twist 22BR barrel that I'm anxious to shoot if the stars ever align. Maybe this week. The point to this whole screed is my 1600 rounds (mostly full tilt), plus the records that came with the rifle showed 5-600 rounds as an Ackley, plus who knows how many rounds as a standard 22-250. So, 2500 rounds is not out the question, maybe more. All shooting was slow fire. Cant remember ever needing a quick or any other kind of 2nd shot.

The $$ per round of barrel life is not quantifiable due to all the chuckles & WHOOAs & "Did you (expletive deleted) see thats" the rifle produced in the almost 40 years I've had it. That & the lessons learned by actually trying new things... bullets, powders, rifle refinements, loading techniques rather than reading about them on the intranut are priceless, at least to me.

I snagged another used, too cheap to pass up, 700V 22-250 last year. It's a sub 1/2" shooter too & the bore looks almost new with the borescope. The 26" barrel does nice things with the free velocity. I figure maybe spent 200 rounds thru it to familiarize & develop a couple loads & it's good to go until long after I'm dust.

There may be another 22-250 Ackley coming somewhere down the road after 2 or 3 other projects are finished if the doctors dont kill me 1st. No real need, just a fondness for the old barrel burner.

Feels like dinnertime.

 

[KMW 1954]

In my opinion. That is correct.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion. It's what makes us who we are, doesn't it!

In my case I have zero experience with either, so I cannot be an honest judge, only an impression. In my case I am impressed with what I have seen with the 22ARC but am also just as impressed with what I've seen with fast twist 223's!

 

[jelenko]

FWIW, there's a excel sheet that someone built that will show expected accurate barrel life based on the powder used, the amount of powder, the bore diameter, pressure and time between shots.
For me a key point is shots with less than 5 seconds between them erode the barrel 4 times faster than shots with 30 seconds between them

 

[Tommie]

For me a key point is shots with less than 5 seconds between them erode the barrel 4 times faster than shots with 30 seconds between them

AKA: RATE OF FIRE.

 

[Big_Daddy]

AKA: RATE OF FIRE.

I was with and understood you the whole time!

 

[Tommie]

I was with and understood you the whole time!

Absolutely. You get it, buddy.
Hoping for more snarky, uninformed comments from our South Carolina friend. The guy is so entertaining.

 

[Rewinder]

I'm not computer savy enough to be able to provide a hot link to the thread, but if you will search "The Barrel Burner," you will find some accurate information, and several borescope images. It was posted in 12/24. I went to trouble of doing that post to dispel the myths about the 22 CM eating barrels like popcorn. Since then those barrels have progressed and I will share the final numbers if anyone has any interest.

Post in thread 'The Barrel Burner'

Dec 25, 2024

I thought I'd add a short follow up to further illustrate just how wrong a borescope evaluation can be. Old barrel number 3, with that burned up cracked leade, was shot yesterday at the 430 yard mark. Rounds number 1228 thru 1230 yielded the following 3 shot group. It has a 1.5 inch dot aiming point and the 3 rounds measured .740. I'll put up the photos of the leade, and the target, as a vivid comparison of what a crap barrel looks like and how they can shoot if everything else is working. I did notice that the velocity was about 35 to 40 fps slower that it has been and I wonder if...

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[GetReal]

Right after barrel life discussions come the " l shot an awesome three round group" discussions....

 

[STS]

Post in thread 'The Barrel Burner'

Dec 25, 2024

I thought I'd add a short follow up to further illustrate just how wrong a borescope evaluation can be. Old barrel number 3, with that burned up cracked leade, was shot yesterday at the 430 yard mark. Rounds number 1228 thru 1230 yielded the following 3 shot group. It has a 1.5 inch dot aiming point and the 3 rounds measured .740. I'll put up the photos of the leade, and the target, as a vivid comparison of what a crap barrel looks like and how they can shoot if everything else is working. I did notice that the velocity was about 35 to 40 fps slower that it has been and I wonder if...

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Evidently you are computer savvy enough. I didn't go back and review that thread and had forgotten about that follow up. It does kind of shed some light on some of the misconceptions about barrel life. That was the whole point of going to the trouble of getting those borescope images and comparing the performance of the barrel to them. Good on you.

 

[charlie b]

This has been an interesting 8 pages of comments.

Yes, barrel life is something each of us evaluates when choosing a cartridge. How we use a rifle affects that barrel life. A lot of us will never shoot a pdog town and burn out a barrel in a weekend (even though I live in an area with plenty of opportunity). I am a paper shooter, and I only shoot a few hundred rounds a month total. So even a 1000rnd barrel will last me more than a year. I typically get more than that with the cartridges I shoot. And, yes, they are an expendable item.

ARC. They are basically the PPC's with faster twist. PPC was designed for 'short range' but, like the .223, can be stretched out further. Don't have a gas gun so am not hampered by those limits. The advantage I can see over the .223 or AI is the fatter case giving better es/sd for longer ranges. I like my .223 and I like the long barrel life I get from it, but, when range gets long the es starts to rear its ugly head. At the same time a 22BR might be a better choice than the ARC. It could be run at a lower level to extend barrel life and still get a decent vel for my use. I love my 6BR so that's a point to consider.

And, yes, I am planning on a new barrel for one of my rifles this year so these are all running in my head

As to why people shoot pdogs, it is a good thing out here in cattle country. Pesky things chew up what little grass there is and create leg breaking holes in addition. Some of the ranchers will offer benefits to shooters. There used to be a group out here who 'managed' pdog and coyote hunts for no fee. The ranchers would contact them and they would post the info for shooters to choose a date and location.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Let me try to express some concepts of the 22ARC that you may not have thought of, much of which can also be said about the 6MM ARC.
1. Having 22ARC bolt loads and having both a bolt and gas gun can be a dubious condition.
I have an AR15 platform 6MM ARC and a Remington 700 in 6MM Remington loaded hot. The AR is a low pressure SPR/DMR general purpose rile, the Remington is a high pressure crow/chuck rifle, a true varmint grade rifle. Even in a bolt rifle I could never make the 6MM ARC perform like the 6MM Remington but I or one of my children or grandchildren could blow up my AR by mixing up the loads.
I have a similar condition with my A2 in 5.56 and my Howa 1500 in 223 and I'm not happy about it. HOWEVER the 5.56 does handle 60,000 PSI, the 6MM ARC in the AR will not.
2. The case capacity, ergo the performance of the 22ARC is readily available in many commercial cases. Many that can be loaded to out perform the 22ARC and components are more available and less expensive.
3. I have said this about the 6MM ARC and it fits equally with the 22 ARC, it was designed for the AR15 and when used there is an excellent cartridge.

Still doesn’t poo poo running it in a bolt action, I’d be perfectly happy with the performance I get in a gasser in a bolt action, 2900 fps with a 80 grain bullet with absolutely no pressure issues.
Cheap, mild and fun.

Like a modern 22 hornet.
We can call it 22/6ppc!
Lol!

 

[joshb]

What about the 224 Valkyrie? Anybody shoot it?

 

[David Milisock]

Still doesn’t poo poo running it in a bolt action, I’d be perfectly happy with the performance I get in a gasser in a bolt action, 2900 fps with a 80 grain bullet with absolutely no pressure issues.
Cheap, mild and fun.

Like a modern 22 hornet.
We can call it 22/6ppc!
Lol!

Sure, have fun just mark your bolt action ammo so it does not get into a gas gun.

 

[KMW 1954]

A view on barrel replacement. The group I shoot Bench League with are very serious. Most shooting some form of 6mm at 1/4MOA sized targets. To them, once the groups started opening up and they struggled to hold that small target, they would consider the barrel done and replace it. That was normally somewhere around 1800 rounds.

I would tease three of the guys all the time and tell them, "when you take off that barrel, give it to me as I could probably get another 1800 rounds thru it and still see an improvement". I was shooting a Model 12 Savage Varmint 223.

 

[KMW 1954]

Sure, have fun just mark your bolt action ammo so it does not get into a gas gun.

Guessing that isn't an issue for those of us that do not have a gas gun.