The barrel is one of the cheaper components

[Rob01]

PRS accuracy requirements aren’t quite the same as BR.
A hit is a hit and no one is measuring group size with calipers for aggregates.

Jim

Obviously you just want to argue so have at it. lol You won’t know until you try one and a Savage nut prefit is not it.

Guys shooting PRS have very accurate rifles because they aren’t shooting off a bench or prone but off props so yeah the rifles are very accurate but maybe not top shooter in BR accurate but 1/3 moa to 1000+ is not bad. Better than most need. Guys do shoot their rifles for accuracy before matches so you know. It’s not all hitting steel.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Obviously you just want to argue so have at it. lol You won’t know until you try one and a Savage nut prefit is not it.

Guys shooting PRS have very accurate rifles because they aren’t shooting off a bench or prone but off props so yeah the rifles are very accurate but maybe not top shooter in BR accurate but 1/3 moa to 1000+ is not bad. Better than most need. Guys do shoot their rifles for accuracy before matches so you know. It’s not all hitting steel.

There are people that post here that think Accurate Shooter Forum is Benchrest Central. They argue every point based on anything that is not embraced by their tiny group is illegitimate in shooting sports.

 

[FrankG]

Well this is probably going to really stir the pot but I keep reading posts that you cant use this cartridge because its hard on barrels you can only use these. Smith's cost too much and barrels are too expensive.

Yes I understand it is not just about barrel price there is some inconvenience in bringing your rifle to a smith but I decided to do some math and I think some will be very surprised.

To keep things equal we are going to use todays pricing.

High end match grade barrel thats chambered and installed we will say $900.

Now we are going to pick on the 284 win since lots use it.

55gr of powder at todays $75 a pound. We will round it up to 59 cents per shot. I am being nice if I used R-26 price per pound it would be 4 to 5 times that per shot.

180 Berger Hybrid we will say 80 bucks a 100 with tax and shipping. That 80 cents a bullet.

Federal 210 match primer we will say $120 per 1000 so thats 12 cents a piece.

I am going to be nice and not even include the price of brass. Most guys I know that shoot comp have a minimum of 500 cases per rifle.

Now if my math is right one round without the cost of brass is 1.51 per shot.

Guys say they get 2800 rounds down the 284 win before the barrel is toast so we will go with that.

Thats $4,228 dollars without the cost of brass.

Dont worry I wont tell your wives but I think we can agree the cost of a chambered barrel should not cause the heart failure it does after seeing that price breakdown.

I made a post about something this not to long ago... Here is what I posted in another thread.....

So this is a good one... Just recently got an accuracy test barrel back from a ammo maker. 308win is the caliber. When ever they retire one of our barrels as they typically go a long time barrel life wise. They will ask if I want it back and usually I say yes.... anyways I get it back and we look at it.

So the accuracy test barrel I got back was officially retired when it hit 27,160 rounds fired thru it. That's not a typo! Not 2k rounds but yest 27k rounds fired thru it!

The barrel was testing five different types of ammo/bullets. Barrel is a 1-12 twist 308win.

At 26,550 rounds the barrel was still shooting groups at from .4 to .5moa at 200 yards and it was getting a 150 rounds a day fired thru it. 10 shot groups by the way.

So while we where looking at it the thought went into our heads. How much powder got burned thru this barrel?

It got roughly a 154# of powder fired thru the barrel.

At a cost of lets say current retail of $70 per pound of powder... that equals $10,800!

27+ boxes of 1k count primers at $85 per 1k that equals $2,295!

270 boxes of bullets (100 count boxes) at a rough retail price of $50 per box that equals $13,500 in bullets!

That total dollar wise comes to $26,959 if you had brass to start with and used your reloaded brass every single time.

If you had to buy brass and only shoot the brass one time.... that would be about $16,740 for brass. That would give you a grand total of $43,335!

Just food for thought.

Later, Frank
Bartlein Barrels

 

[JFrank]

Obviously you just want to argue so have at it. lol You won’t know until you try one and a Savage nut prefit is not it.

I asked who is winning with a prefit barrel and you couldn’t answer that question. That’s not arguing..

Bradly had one guy out of 36 competitiors that placed third. Ok great..

 

[Rob01]

I asked who is winning with a prefit barrel and you couldn’t answer that question. That’s not arguing..

Bradly had one guy out of 36 competitiors that placed third. Ok great..

Because I don’t shoot BR! To me it’s boring as hell. lol So do you win BR matches?

 

[SKWERLZ]

Because I don’t shoot BR! To me it’s boring as hell. lol So do you win BR matches?

Good question

 

[Kevin1990]

I don't think your math is mathing. I mean for that cartridge sure, but for things like a 6br, 6BRA, 22br 6ppc, 22ppc, absolutely not. Let's say you retire it at 2000-2500 rounds, which is extremely generous for a few listed.

Action: Idk $900-2300 or more depening?
Brass 200 pieces $260+ or -
Primers .10 a piece
Powder: 16 pounds N140
Ammerman bullets: (custom route) 103s $1000

Barrel you're looking at $400-450 plus shipping let's say $30-40 a trip, then chambering at $400, and another trip. Possibly around $860+. On a single "consumable"

I'm not a competition shooter, but that's not peanuts to me, that's a lot of money. If you're already tooled up to chamber barrels then its a different story.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

Because I don’t shoot BR! To me it’s boring as hell. lol So do you win BR matches?

And, personally, I DON'T Want or, Need, the STRESS to "Compete" at, anything,.. anymore.
In my 20's and 30's I competed as, a Semi-Pro, Trap and Live Pidgeon Shooter with, $15,000. in Competitive Shotguns ( That's in, Early 1980's,.. Dollars ). I Shot / travelled, all over, the USA doing, This.
I was Gone from Family, 3 out of, 4 Week-ends a Month, to compete ( The Money, WAS, Nice,.. BUT ! ).
I like, "Accurate" Rifles,.. But,...NO thanks on, Competitive BR !
And the "Precise" Hand loading and component / Tooling, EXPENSES, involved to get, groups down to,.. the 1's !
Group's in, the 2's and 3's,.. are just Fine for, Me

 

[urbanrifleman]

Bradly had one guy out of 36 competitiors that placed third. Ok great..

I did... and it's awesome.

 

[swd]

For this argument there needs to be differentiation between pre fits with top shelf barrel like Krieger, Bartlein, Brux etc and pre fit with economy barrel blanks Completely different animals for high accuracy disciplines. Economy pre fits are fine for many things and you might get lucky and have one that once in while can do ok at a higher level. But economy barrels lack the consistency to compete at those levels all the time. No one wants who wants the absolutely highest accuracy possible wants to spend the money on an economy barrel and all the time and money involved with load development just to find out it didn't hold up and now they have to do it all over again..

 

[swd]

I did... and it's awesome.

And I use premium barrels and my shooters multiple state championships wins and a seconds at a state championship along with multiple daily wins in Master and High Master at state championships. And I only chamber 6-8 barrels a year. But that's what my clients expect from me so I won't bother gloating about it.

 

[FrankG]

Here is our take on prefits and why we don't offer them.

One... it's going to make you carry inventory and as it stands we don't have any extra time to offer a prefit as we are trying just to keep up with barrel blank orders etc... We tried it several years ago with Savage guns....and we said... only one contour, this caliber and this twist only (chamber spec didn't matter) but no matter what.... some guy still wanted a different twist or a different finish length etc...You just can't cover every possible option.

With that being said... even the custom actions can vary a little in tolerance on the receivers and or bolts. This is where it really turns into a quick sand pit for us. We can hit the number smack dab in the middle of what it's suppose to be but something is off somewhere with the receiver or bolt and or you start stacking the tolerances and then you run into the issue with headspace or a bolt closing/hitting the barrel etc...

I won't name the gun maker where we've done prefits for and I will tell you this... one out of every ten we did... it wasn't that the barrel was out of spec... but the receiver or the bolt or a combination of both was out of spec and there where issues with the barrel fitting. When this happened we needed the customer to send us his action/bolt and barrel back and we had to sort it all out and fix the issues. We always ended up eating the cost.

Also we run into... a previous owner of a rifle... had the action trued etc... guy orders a barrel that's a prefit and there are issues because the action has been modified unknown to the new owner or the gunsmith or the barrel maker.

So who eats the cost when the barrel doesn't fit/work properly? The guy who did the prefit work? Or?????

If you order a prefit barrel... regardless of who did the work... if the gun doesn't shoot or has other issues... your first call should not be to the barrel maker if all they did was make the blank... it should go to the shop that did the prefit work first.

If the prefit work was done properly and there are no issues with receiver/bolt/headspace etc... With a high quality barrel I don't see a difference in performance/accuracy vs having a gunsmith fit one up individually. Just be aware with prefits... you can have issues.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Here is our take on prefits and why we don't offer them.

One... it's going to make you carry inventory and as it stands we don't have any extra time to offer a prefit as we are trying just to keep up with barrel blank orders etc... We tried it several years ago with Savage guns....and we said... only one contour, this caliber and this twist only (chamber spec didn't matter) but no matter what.... some guy still wanted a different twist or a different finish length etc...You just can't cover every possible option.

With that being said... even the custom actions can vary a little in tolerance on the receivers and or bolts. This is where it really turns into a quick sand pit for us. We can hit the number smack dab in the middle of what it's suppose to be but something is off somewhere with the receiver or bolt and or you start stacking the tolerances and then you run into the issue with headspace or a bolt closing/hitting the barrel etc...

I won't name the gun maker where we've done prefits for and I will tell you this... one out of every ten we did... it wasn't that the barrel was out of spec... but the receiver or the bolt or a combination of both was out of spec and there where issues with the barrel fitting. When this happened we needed the customer to send us his action/bolt and barrel back and we had to sort it all out and fix the issues. We always ended up eating the cost.

Also we run into... a previous owner of a rifle... had the action trued etc... guy orders a barrel that's a prefit and there are issues because the action has been modified unknown to the new owner or the gunsmith or the barrel maker.

So who eats the cost when the barrel doesn't fit/work properly? The guy who did the prefit work? Or?????

If you order a prefit barrel... regardless of who did the work... if the gun doesn't shoot or has other issues... your first call should not be to the barrel maker if all they did was make the blank... it should go to the shop that did the prefit work first.

If the prefit work was done properly and there are no issues with receiver/bolt/headspace etc... With a high quality barrel I don't see a difference in performance/accuracy vs having a gunsmith fit one up individually. Just be aware with prefits... you can have issues.

You can.

I suggest that all my customers buy a digital depth mic so they can check all their actions. Worth the $150 for the tool.

Measuring headspace is easier than most reloading practices.

Or just buy an action that you know hasn't been jacked with. Which is also my advice to a guy that wants no issues.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

For this argument there needs to be differentiation between pre fits with top shelf barrel like Krieger, Bartlein, Brux etc and pre fit with economy barrel blanks Completely different animals for high accuracy disciplines. Economy pre fits are fine for many things and you might get lucky and have one that once in while can do ok at a higher level. But economy barrels lack the consistency to compete at those levels all the time. No one wants who wants the absolutely highest accuracy possible wants to spend the money on an economy barrel and all the time and money involved with load development just to find out it didn't hold up and now they have to do it all over again..

AGREE with, This ^^^ If, I were to, "Build" a seriously Competitive and EXPENSIVE, B R, Rifle of, Any sort,..
It would be WITH, a "Top Notch" Known, winning,.. Barrel Maker and Gun Smith.
For "other" Shooting Sport, Varmint Hunting, Steel Play / PRS, "uses",.. a Good, Pre-Fit,.. IS,.. Okay !

 

[urbanrifleman]

For this argument there needs to be differentiation between pre fits with top shelf barrel like Krieger, Bartlein, Brux etc and pre fit with economy barrel blanks Completely different animals for high accuracy disciplines. Economy pre fits are fine for many things and you might get lucky and have one that once in while can do ok at a higher level. But economy barrels lack the consistency to compete at those levels all the time. No one wants who wants the absolutely highest accuracy possible wants to spend the money on an economy barrel and all the time and money involved with load development just to find out it didn't hold up and now they have to do it all over again..

So just that we are clear, a "prefit" being a prefit (a shouldered prefit) has nothing to do with the blank that you use.

Many, if not all of the top gunsmiths make shouldered barrels without the action present. This is for custom actions that don't require fitting.

That's would be exactly the same as a "prefit". Meaning that there's no fitting required because the action is built to such a tight tolerance that it doesn't require fitting. That's where the name came from. I remember a time on this very forum where people would brag that their actions didn't require fitting they could just call their gunsmith and make them a barrel or they could call Kelbly and order barrels that just screwed on and fitted and that was a point of superiority. Now somewhere along the line pre-fit has become something that people now say is not a good thing? I get confused.

 

[Rob01]

Here is our take on prefits and why we don't offer them.

One... it's going to make you carry inventory and as it stands we don't have any extra time to offer a prefit as we are trying just to keep up with barrel blank orders etc... We tried it several years ago with Savage guns....and we said... only one contour, this caliber and this twist only (chamber spec didn't matter) but no matter what.... some guy still wanted a different twist or a different finish length etc...You just can't cover every possible option.

With that being said... even the custom actions can vary a little in tolerance on the receivers and or bolts. This is where it really turns into a quick sand pit for us. We can hit the number smack dab in the middle of what it's suppose to be but something is off somewhere with the receiver or bolt and or you start stacking the tolerances and then you run into the issue with headspace or a bolt closing/hitting the barrel etc...

I won't name the gun maker where we've done prefits for and I will tell you this... one out of every ten we did... it wasn't that the barrel was out of spec... but the receiver or the bolt or a combination of both was out of spec and there where issues with the barrel fitting. When this happened we needed the customer to send us his action/bolt and barrel back and we had to sort it all out and fix the issues. We always ended up eating the cost.

Also we run into... a previous owner of a rifle... had the action trued etc... guy orders a barrel that's a prefit and there are issues because the action has been modified unknown to the new owner or the gunsmith or the barrel maker.

So who eats the cost when the barrel doesn't fit/work properly? The guy who did the prefit work? Or?????

If you order a prefit barrel... regardless of who did the work... if the gun doesn't shoot or has other issues... your first call should not be to the barrel maker if all they did was make the blank... it should go to the shop that did the prefit work first.

If the prefit work was done properly and there are no issues with receiver/bolt/headspace etc... With a high quality barrel I don't see a difference in performance/accuracy vs having a gunsmith fit one up individually. Just be aware with prefits... you can have issues.

Frank it’s good to get a Bartlein barrel blank and have a smith make it into a prefit. I have about 4 in the safe now. They work great.

 

[swd]

So just that we are clear, a "prefit" being a prefit (a shouldered prefit) has nothing to do with the blank that you use.

Many, if not all of the top gunsmiths make shouldered barrels without the action present. This is for custom actions that don't require fitting.

That's would be exactly the same as a "prefit".

I'm not sure your point.

Generally when guys talk about a "pre fit barrel" there is an implication that it's a discounted product at a lower cost than a one off.

Pre fit barrels as a product can be of the exact same quality as a one off or of lesser quality depending on where cost cutting comes from, if any.
A pre fit with $150 blank and one with a $400 blank are not comparing apples to apples. Hence my post about clarifying that.

 

[Rob01]

I'm not sure your point.

Generally when guys talk about a "pre fit barrel" there is an implication that it's a discounted product at a lower cost than a one off.

Pre fit barrels as a product can be of the exact same quality as a one off or of lesser quality depending on where cost cutting comes from, if any. Hence my post about clarifying that.

That is definitely not what I am talking about. I am talking about quality barrel blank being turned into a prefit. And all the prefits I have used which has been over a dozen in multiple calibers have been one offs. I order it and they make it. Not a budget barrel off the shelf. I never thought of them as that.

 

[swd]

That is definitely not what I am talking about. I am talking about quality barrel blank being turned into a prefit. And all the prefits I have used which has been over a dozen in multiple calibers have been one offs. I order it and they make it. Not a budget barrel off the shelf. I never thought of them as that.

I was replying to Brad's response to mine, not yours, sorry

 

[Bottom Fodder]

So this tread went from

The barrel is one of the cheaper components​

To arguing over prefits
All I can say is I’m not surprised, nutted prefits is all I shoot now and let’s just say I’m happy with the result in what competition I do