• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Learning at the Whidden Gunworks Test Range

In small markets the ammo choice is more limited than in a large market.

In Canada, for example, in the fall of last year the first 2024-produced Midas arrived, a total of five lots. Prior to that there were a total of six lots of previously unavailable 2023-made Midas. In total, eleven lots of M+ over the course of a year.

At 100 yards all performed similarly over several rifles. None was poor, none especially good.
 
Tim,

With the current situation if someone has a choice of 5 -6 lots versus zero if they chose to pass then it is on them not the ammo maker or test center.
I am on the waiting list for June, if they have 5-6 lots, I sure am not going to say never mind I will wait. I remember years ago that phrase, chasing ammo in today's world it surely is a reality!

Lee
Lee, Remember , for many the center is the primary option, For guys trying for a high level it’s not impossible, simply tougher than it should ideally be, the downside of current denand dilemma. Mine is an observation bot a personal issue, like many long term guys I have a decent info network and like yourself, have had luck buying blind with info from others. I try hard to keep way ahead of it to avoid emergency mistakes but lots of guys cannot do that.
I was scheduled to drive to Ohio 2 weeks after they closed down, had to ship 2 rifles to Az, probably get back in Ohio line , as muchas snything to be present ………we’ll see.
 
Lee, Remember , for many the center is the primary option, For guys trying for a high level it’s not impossible, simply tougher than it should ideally be, the downside of current denand dilemma. Mine is an observation bot a personal issue, like many long term guys I have a decent info network and like yourself, have had luck buying blind with info from others. I try hard to keep way ahead of it to avoid emergency mistakes but lots of guys cannot do that.
I was scheduled to drive to Ohio 2 weeks after they closed down, had to ship 2 rifles to Az, probably get back in Ohio line , as muchas snything to be present ………we’ll see.
Tim,

I have been giving the same ammo I been buying to try to some of the other shooters here and results though not the same as mine, but always if not better than what they were shooting at least shot good.

Lee
 
Buying ammo is like shooting in the wind....conditions dictate what you have to do to succeed. Sometimes if you want more out you have to put more in.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dwt
We had the opportunity to shoot an interesting test recently on our range. We shot 54 lots of ammunition through a rather accurate rifle. Each lot was fired for just one 10 round group, so the data from each lot is pretty limited. The groups were measured at both 50M and 100M. I'm comparing group sizes using outside to outside measurements when I give the comparisons below.

At 50M, Midas was the most accurate. We shot 6 lots of this. It was 5% better than Tenex, and we tested 21 lots of Tenex. Next in line were Lapua Long Range (6 lots) then Center X (8 lots) These ranked pretty close to each other and not far behind Tenex. Tenex pistol was last place and about 20% behind these.

At 100M things were different. Tenex was best by 3.4% over Center X. Midas was about 10% behind Center X, and Long Range 3% behind that. Tenex Pistol was last by about 8% more.

We shot one lot of Lapua Pistol King and it perfromed well especially at 50M. I don't feel that one lot is enough data to include in the above results. We've sold Lapua Biathlon in the last few months and reports from shooters have been positive on that but it wasn't tested here.

Turning to another topic, we've really seen that firing pin springs are important. If you're groups are consistently taller than they are wide by 30% or more, drop a new spring in there. I'll be doing this yearly. It's certainly cheap in the scheme of things.

Cleaning still matters a lot as well. After watching our results, I've settled on a pretty traditional cleaning method. Wet patch (we use Shooter's Choice but really think most any solvent is fine), brush with a wet bronze brush about 6 strokes (a stroke is all the way back and forth) and then wet patch until clean. Good barrels will shoot well again after 5 rounds or less. While I do have success with centerfire rifles and abrasive bore cleaners, the rimfire guns don't seem to be the right place for them. I reserve the right to change my mind as I learn...

I'm beginning to gather evidence that chambers may matter less than we like to think. We certainly don't see evidence that having a gun "chambered for Eley" or "chambered for Lapua" holds any water at all. We've seen excellent results with very tight match chambers and also match chambers that are on the larger end (larger than Winchester 52D). As many of you know, there are many many "match" chambers compiled onto one info sheet by PTG. When I refer to "match", I'm thinking of most of the bolt gun chambers. I exclude anythign as large as the Bentz semi auto chambers in my mind. It seems when we get to the Bentz chambers things go backwards on accuracy, but our data here is limited.

It would be awesome if Shane could come give us the perspective from the Lapua test centers as well. Those guys also do excellent work and we have a great relationship with them.

I'll do my best to answer your questions.
 
Ill be making a trip to the test facility with a couple rifles for my buddies Dave and Tom. Will be cool to see the place. Will take some pictures if its ok and kind of take you guys along. Will have a couple Mullers, a gain twist Bartlien and maybe a Lilja if its done in time @Hoodoo. Not sure if we'll do it but I think it would be very interesting to test the Bix, Jewell, and Flavio triggers in the fixture to see if theres any accuracy there
 
I’d love to know if “jumping” bolt handles affect accuracy.

I’ve heard that some rifles have a bolt handle that lays quietly still during the shot and others (like my Vudoo) move a little bit. I was told that rifles with perfectly still bolt handles might shoot better.
 
I’d love to know if “jumping” bolt handles affect accuracy.

I’ve heard that some rifles have a bolt handle that lays quietly still during the shot and others (like my Vudoo) move a little bit. I was told that rifles with perfectly still bolt handles might shoot better.
That is very interesting
A friend watched me shoot an ARA match Sat with my CZ MTR--he commented that the bolt "jumped" a little about half the time as in the handle would rise up just a tad
Rifle shoots great with good ammo so who knows.......Guess I need a one pound lead bolt knob
 
Ill be making a trip to the test facility with a couple rifles for my buddies Dave and Tom. Will be cool to see the place. Will take some pictures if its ok and kind of take you guys along. Will have a couple Mullers, a gain twist Bartlien and maybe a Lilja if its done in time @Hoodoo. Not sure if we'll do it but I think it would be very interesting to test the Bix, Jewell, and Flavio triggers in the fixture to see if theres any accuracy there
When are you going?
 
We keep seeing that if a lot of ammo shoots well that it Will shoot well in more than just that one rifle--my gang of local pals all started as rookies in the last year --we have 5 CZ MTR's When a great lot of ammo is found--we find that it will shoot great in all 5 of these rifles
I think John mentioned that they were not seeing that in their testing--I sure believe him--bet I do but we seem to find in Our group of shooters that Lucky for us it --a good lot shoots well in all
I will say out of 5 factory MTR's we have one that just Hammers!!! and the other four do well but just do not have the "magic" that one has--that convinces me that if you want to get serious about ARA for example that testing as many as possible is the key--I bought another last week--I will test and hope it is one of the "magic" ones The way it is now everyone wants to shoot that one rifle
But again --our ammo lots--selected using Whiddens Test Brick Program--seem to shoot well in all of our rifles
FWIW all of our rifles are set up the exact same way --same trigger mods--same brand bipod --same rear bags, same mat under the bipods etc and that all members shoot better with that one rifle
 
We had the opportunity to shoot an interesting test recently on our range. We shot 54 lots of ammunition through a rather accurate rifle. Each lot was fired for just one 10 round group, so the data from each lot is pretty limited. The groups were measured at both 50M and 100M. I'm comparing group sizes using outside to outside measurements when I give the comparisons below.

At 50M, Midas was the most accurate. We shot 6 lots of this. It was 5% better than Tenex, and we tested 21 lots of Tenex. Next in line were Lapua Long Range (6 lots) then Center X (8 lots) These ranked pretty close to each other and not far behind Tenex. Tenex pistol was last place and about 20% behind these.

At 100M things were different. Tenex was best by 3.4% over Center X. Midas was about 10% behind Center X, and Long Range 3% behind that. Tenex Pistol was last by about 8% more.

We shot one lot of Lapua Pistol King and it perfromed well especially at 50M. I don't feel that one lot is enough data to include in the above results. We've sold Lapua Biathlon in the last few months and reports from shooters have been positive on that but it wasn't tested here.

Turning to another topic, we've really seen that firing pin springs are important. If you're groups are consistently taller than they are wide by 30% or more, drop a new spring in there. I'll be doing this yearly. It's certainly cheap in the scheme of things.

Cleaning still matters a lot as well. After watching our results, I've settled on a pretty traditional cleaning method. Wet patch (we use Shooter's Choice but really think most any solvent is fine), brush with a wet bronze brush about 6 strokes (a stroke is all the way back and forth) and then wet patch until clean. Good barrels will shoot well again after 5 rounds or less. While I do have success with centerfire rifles and abrasive bore cleaners, the rimfire guns don't seem to be the right place for them. I reserve the right to change my mind as I learn...

I'm beginning to gather evidence that chambers may matter less than we like to think. We certainly don't see evidence that having a gun "chambered for Eley" or "chambered for Lapua" holds any water at all. We've seen excellent results with very tight match chambers and also match chambers that are on the larger end (larger than Winchester 52D). As many of you know, there are many many "match" chambers compiled onto one info sheet by PTG. When I refer to "match", I'm thinking of most of the bolt gun chambers. I exclude anythign as large as the Bentz semi auto chambers in my mind. It seems when we get to the Bentz chambers things go backwards on accuracy, but our data here is limited.

It would be awesome if Shane could come give us the perspective from the Lapua test centers as well. Those guys also do excellent work and we have a great relationship with them.

I'll do my best to answer your questions.
You were not wrong about the Pistol King Sir. I protested bull #7 to bring the final score to 2500 17X. :)

20250322_183805.jpg
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,793
Messages
2,203,554
Members
79,130
Latest member
Jsawyer09
Back
Top