New to load development and suffering from information overload

[nwmnbowhunter]

I think if you keep going up in charge you might find a good spot.

 

[Lead Slanger]

I think if you keep going up in charge you might find a good spot.

I agree. I, for sure, need to load the max of what Hodgdon says @ 43.5 and see what it does. Judging by the target with the single shot per aim point, there looks to be a node on the high end.

I just checked out the chronograph numbers for today (checked with a LabRadar and a Garmin) and compared it to what Hodgdon says and they're right on the money. Their test numbers are with a 24" barrel and I have a 26", but I expect it to speed up once the round count goes up.

 

[Florida Wally]

I agree. I, for sure, need to load the max of what Hodgdon says @ 43.5 and see what it does. Judging by the target with the single shot per aim point, there looks to be a node on the high end.

I was thinking the same thing about the high end. If 42.9 - 43.5 groups shoot pretty flat, you have got a good load to work with.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

#1 you're wasting your time with less than .5 grain increments
#2 you haven't listed the chronograph results which would show the spikes (but your groups show the spikes on your orange targets, there are spikes yes)
#3 you're not listing your measurements of neck tension
#4 there's other loading techniques I could share to improve you loads but considering you are focusing on these other guys with things that really don't matter, you'll never know. There are a few, here that aren't on this forum, and it's easy to see, that are not mentioning what I do, that I got advice from.

Well heck, tell us what you have. We’re hear to learn.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

By the way to the OP, don’t forget, the Hornady bullet your shooting is a middle of the road type and it may be at its best potential now.

 

[over_thetop]

Three ways to find the lands, If the bullet slip is to much it won't secure the bullet.

 

[jelenko]

FF case and lock tite to get a good OAL touching

How are you using loctite to measure OAL? Is that cartridge overall length?

 

[JFrank]

I think if you keep going up in charge you might find a good spot.

He most likely will find nodes repeat approx 3% apart, as do anti nodes.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Three ways to find the lands, If the bullet slip is to much it won't secure the bullet.

I haven’t watched those, but quite a few of us use the Alex Wheeler method with a stripped bolt and a regular long loaded round and keep setting it deeper to to get bolt fall.

 

[JFrank]

That video makes me yawn and Gaven keeps interrupting.
Finding exact touch point only matters if you’re sharing information and where you start isn’t near as important as where you finish.

Write that down.

 

[G Liles]

That video makes me yawn and Gaven keeps interrupting.
Finding exact touch point only matters if you’re sharing information and where you start isn’t near as important as where you finish.

Write that down.

Well said!! You still have to find the seating depth node regardless of where you start, at touch, touch, jam or jump.

 

[CharlieNC]

There are basically two approaches to defining a node. One is based on finding small groups while the other focuses on finding a stable point of impact, and in reality they overlap significantly with respect to charge weight and seating depth. Tracking the poi at 200yd provides a clear signal and is reproducible with 2-3 shots each, whereas reproducing group size results is difficult unless the groups are already small. Initially focus on poi using a ladder, OCW, etc and the groups will follow. With that and more experience the ability to optimize groups with a reasonable number of shots will evolve.

 

[Lead Slanger]

By the way to the OP, don’t forget, the Hornady bullet your shooting is a middle of the road type and it may be at its best potential now.

I have a new box of Berger VLD's, but I was wanting to save them until I get a few more rounds down the barrel. I didn't really want to use them for break in.

 

[Lead Slanger]

#1 you're wasting your time with less than .5 grain increments
#2 you haven't listed the chronograph results which would show the spikes (but your groups show the spikes on your orange targets, there are spikes yes)
#3 you're not listing your measurements of neck tension
#4 I keep my barrel copper fouled, to a point, and recheck OAL after 100 rounds to reset OAL
#5 there's other loading techniques I could share to improve you loads but considering you are focusing on these other guys with things that really don't matter, you'll never know. There are a few, here that aren't on this forum, and it's easy to see, that are not mentioning what I do, that I got advice from.

I'll reply back in order of the numbers.

#1. I don't feel that I am. I have two reasons for deciding on .3 grain increments. I need to get 100-200 rounds down the barrel before it starts to settle in. .3 grain increments gives me more shots and gets me closer to break in while getting familiar with load development. It also gives me more data for what it's worth at the moment.

#2. I didn't post the numbers from each shot on the three shot groups. I did post the velocity numbers on the other target from the single impacts. They're around those numbers. With the ES numbers the way they are on the target with the orange dots, you know how much they swing from the numbers on the other target.

#3. I don't think you're reading what's been posted. I'd have to go back an look, but I'm pretty sure that I've mentioned three times what my neck tension is.

#4. I kind of do the same thing. I don't let it get out of hand, but I don't do the whole "shoot one, clean, shoot two, clean, shoot five, clean" thing. I don't go back and check OAL though. Once I start honing in on a load, I'll check seating depth then and go with that. Right now, I'm loading at .020 off of jam and as long as my loads are consistent with each other I'm fine with that for now.

#5. What have I been focusing on that doesn't matter?

 

[Lead Slanger]

He most likely will find nodes repeat approx 3% apart, as do anti nodes.

3% of charge weight?

 

[Lead Slanger]

I think that’s the only way you could do it each time, from the previous charge weight.

I wasn't sure if he meant that the node would be off 3% of charge weight or 3% of velocity. That might work out to be the same. I'm not sure. Haha

 

[JFrank]

I wasn't sure if he meant that the node would be off 3% of charge weight or 3% of velocity. That might work out to be the same. I'm not sure. Haha

Yes, nodes tend to repeat in approx 3% charge increments. If you cover enough range with your powder ladders you’ll see each node appear as the increments increase.

 

[Lead Slanger]

#1 you don't have to break in your barrel, just shoot it. Call Howa and ask them if they lap thier barrels before they ship them. I did better.... I went on thier website.
I bought an aftermarket McGowen barrel 15 years ago for 350 bucks, hand lapped. Your 1K plus rifle is up there in quality rifles, they would let a barrel go by with a rough barrel, that you have to "break in".

Home - Howa USA

Superlite22ARCSuper Deluxe WalnutAPCCarbon StalkerQualityGamepro 2.0TSPX Howa does not sell firearms or serialized items to the general public.Please contact your local dealer or FFL for purchasing inquiries.Click HERE to view our Territory Managers! QUALITY & INNOVATION HOWA RIFLES Every Howa...

www.howausa.com

they lap thier barrels

#2 We can see spike with your crono numbers
#3 your cross targets show your spikes, I saw the FPS on each. Not real high but high enough to show spikes.
#4 You don't need to clean the barrel between certain number of shots until you reach like 100 ( and leave some copper until the accuracy falls out, the barrel being cleaned too thoroughly isn't good to the next shooting session). Checking OAL would vary if you don't compare bullet base to ogive that would effect OAL
#5 Barrel break in

You have a 1:8 twist.... a 140 is to light for 1:8, I would go with the heaviest especially at long range.

And yes you are overloaded with information

#1. Shooting your barrel is breaking it in and getting everything settled. I know their barrels are hammer forged and that they don't hand lap their barrels.

#2. You stated earlier that you don't own a chronograph and never will. All of the info I posted should be enough for you then.

3. Which target? Nevermind.... It doesn't really matter.

#4. Again, I don't think you're reading (or comprehending) what had already been said in my last reply.

#5. 1:8 twist is a standard twist rate for a 6.5 Creedmoor. 140's are heavy for the cartridge. I know their not the heaviest, but they're the heaviest I want to go in a 6.5 Creedmoor.

You said earlier that I was paying attention to everyone else and not your responses. That's because (as seen in the reply I'm responding to) that you're not reading what's already been posted and discussed two or three times.

Edit: By the way, you're not comprehending what that picture from the reloading manual says about magnum primers and 4350 as well. The key words are at the end of the statement.

I'm going to go ahead and second what @JFrank said. I don't agree with you either.

 

[Lead Slanger]

do your thing

your barrel may not be lapped, but I would say it's finished to be smooth ! LOL

The load manual explanation about slow burning powder and mag primers is what it says, they recommend it. I use them over standard primers and it improved accuracy quite a bit, it tightened up my groups. You don't try it you'll never know, maybe certain primers over others will perform better. Rem 9 1/2 burn hotter than most. I use mags and have success. You're right, it doesn't matter to me.... the only thing that matters is other people agree with you and it makes you feel good, I guess. Although it doesn't seem they have the experience that's needed to guide you along. Not saying all of them but most of them don't.

Even after I pointed out what you missed about the magnum primers, you still didn't go back and look at it. What it says doesn't apply to a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Have a good one.