New barrel load development

[nksmfamjp]

So, I have a Savage 12 with a new premium cut rifled barrel. It sits in an MDT chassis.

So, I throw together some basic loads set to mag length and 5 different charge weights....5 groups of 5 shots.

What should I expect? If I’m seeing .6-1.5” groups, is something fundamentally wrong or do I just start load development?

I ask because I read posts about guys throwing together a fireform load or a first ladder and putting all into 0.3-0.5”...Is that fake news or do I have an issue?

 

[F Class John]

I would say it's neither fake news nor do you have an issue. The reality is that you probably didn't cover a wide enough range of charges to identify a node properly, combined with possibly not using a seating depth that's in the rough range of where the bullet you're using likes to be. Your bullets may not like whatever your mag length was (which is ambiguous anyway) so as part of your work up you'll end up doing a seating depth test as well. Guys who 'throw stuff together' have done it a lot. I go through 3-4 barrels a year and each one needs to be worked up, but I have a good idea where those ranges will be and when I throw together the first 200 rounds to get the barrel broke in I pretty much know where it wants to be so getting good performance is pretty easy. Were I to get a new unknown to me caliber on a new gun with a new barrel I'd do a proper load up as detailed below.

Oh, and some people just get dumb a$$ lucky on their first load up...it happens

Here's a great thread and more importantly a great method of doing proper load development.

http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/long-range-load-development-at-100-yards.3814361/

Just my 2 pennies....

 

[nksmfamjp]

This is my method, except I have not fine started doing some 3 shot groups yet.

Run a ladder of my lowest acceptable velocity thru a couple grains over max. I use about 0.7% increments. Use some logical OAL....SAMMI, book, mag length, lands minus 0.030”. I shoot until I get excessive bolt lift, case head expansion or other issues....I record max acceptable charge and min acceptable charge based on velocity. I should also be able to identify something close to a velocity node there.

Then run 5 ocw groups centered at that node. 3 shot groups. Vary charge weight. Use the same OAL. Shoot low to high.

Then run 5 ocw groups vary oal. Berger method. 5 shot groups from here on...

Then run 5 ocw groups vary charge weight at 1/2 last increment.

When charge increments are 0.1gr, stop adjusting charge weight, but continue with oal. Until You get your best group that repeats.

Then try another primer, if accuracy seems off. This becomes a bit of a start over when you switch primers.

...but really my question is based on my experience, my load development is going to make about a 30% improvement over best group in the first ocw iteration.

so, my real thought is if a factory rifle shoots around 1.0” at first try, I would hope a custom would shoot 0.5” or better at first try.....is that right?

 

[F Class John]

I don’t understand what you mean by “I should be able to identify an acceptable node” simply by knowing your min and max? Finding a node has nothing to do with knowing the min and max acceptable velocities if a cartridge. Nodes are steps along the away that you’ll find by looking for the flat spots in velocity along the way (read the first post of that link I sent).

And yes, all things being equal the custom barrel should shoot much better than a factory one but you’ll also probably have to work a little harder the first time finding it’s sweet spot. Factory barrels can be more forgiving than custom barrels but with less accuracy. It tends to be a trade off.

Simply buying a custom barrel isn’t a magic fix for anything if you don’t tune it properly. Custom barrels will force you to improve your tuning and reloading skills to get the most out of them.

 

[OmegaRed]

What caliber?

 

[Ned Ludd]

Yes, what caliber, bullet, primer, and powder are you using?

The rifle will tell you where it wants to shoot. Unless you're working up a previously proven load with one new component, such as a new Lot of the same bullet or primer, any guess as to where it will tune in is just that...a guess. Even with just one new component, a load may tune in very close to where it did before, or be noticeably different. The charge weight and/or seating depth of your preliminary loads may simply not be what the rifle wants. I've had non-optimal loadings with custom rifles during the process of tuning that shot 3/4 MOA (100 yd) or even slightly larger, when the final optimized load was around 1/4 MOA. It's hard to predict how much a sub-optimal load might shrink down until it is optimized.

Alternatively, is this rifle new to you, or it just has a new barrel? If the rifle is new, it may also take some time to adjust to it and figure out how to drive it.

 

[nksmfamjp]

300 WSM
HORNADY 212 ELD-X, Nosler 210 ABLR, Berger 190 CLD Match
Fed 215 Match
H4831sc

The “new” is basically everything as it has a new high end cut rifled barrel on a trued action by a name gunsmith.

 

[BDman]

Several of my shooting friends and I have seen the highest quality barrels that were finicky winches. One of my friends said he'd basically burned a barrel out load developing. The worst I've had took 350ish rounds to find a load for. It's now a .25 (occasionally .1) rifle but only with one specific load and a .4 with one other I found just by chance. I was patient with that barrel but I did think of making it a pry bar. I've had many barrels that made a significant change at the 150-200 round mark and went from average to outstanding. I now hold off judging and serious load development until that point. JMHO

 

[dsculley]

I have found that a bad seating depth can change group size more than powder charge in some rifles. There are 2 groups of thought on this, but I now first use a relatively mild load and test for seating depth using the Berger method. After this, I run an OCW. Once I decide on the charge I want to try, I then do a much finer seating depth test around the one previously selected. I then test/prove the selected load at the longest range I intend to shoot, or the longest range available at the time.

 

[nksmfamjp]

I don’t understand what you mean by “I should be able to identify an acceptable node” simply by knowing your min and max? Finding a node has nothing to do with knowing the min and max acceptable velocities if a cartridge. Nodes are steps along the away that you’ll find by looking for the flat spots in velocity along the way (read the first post of that link I sent).

Shooting a ladder tells me where velocities get similar for multiple charge weights....I consider that a node because for long range, I need low sd and 100 yd accuracy.

 

[F Class John]

Shooting a ladder tells me where velocities get similar for multiple charge weights....I consider that a node because for long range, I need low sd and 100 yd accuracy.

Ok so from that aspect we are on the same page. It just didn’t come across that way when you described it the first time.