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Electric Cars -- anyone own one?

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"If the average American household switched to electric vehicles (EVs), the additional electricity consumption per household would be equivalent to 25 refrigerators".

Seems like I remember something a few years back about the "powers that be" saying something about folks getting rid of their EXTRA refers in the garage because they were wasting power??? But your new EV is OK??
Sure wish they would make up their mind. :rolleyes::oops:
 
Unlimited 'gas' for $31 a month. Start each day with a 'full tank.' (I already have a dedicated 240V circuit in my garage.) AND the electricity provided is from 100% renewable.

That's about the cost of 1/3 of a tank of liquid gas in my car and I fill up at least twice a month. Each tank is about a 300 mile range. For all but long haul travel (and towing) EV is becoming REALLY attractive in South Florida. And as charging infrastructure is rolled out long haul will be attractive also.

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What does "With no upfront costs" imply. Dig deeper.
Either pay me now OR pay me later. :oops:
And, $38 dollars a month TILL they decide to bump up THAT cost.
That like the solar rebates. They gave you XXXX amount of $$$ for your extra volts till they decided that was TOO MUCH? NOW you get less. :oops: Sounds just like politicians.
Ain't NO SUCH THING as a FREE LUNCH. :mad:
 
Rather straightforward. You don't pay for permitting, installation or equipment. These are being amortized in the monthly rate. And you pay a flat rate regardless of how much you use. So, yes - of course - one would need to compare the flat rate versus expected consumption, costs of equipment and installation etc. (In part a lease vs buy decision. Same as anyone leasing versus buying the vehicle to begin with.) One good thing about this program is that the charging is regulated to optimize for off-peak. It shows the direction things are moving.

Damn cheap 'gas'. Up to circa 300m miles a day? No problem. Fill me up while I sleep.
 
Rather straightforward. You don't pay for permitting, installation or equipment. These are being amortized in the monthly rate. And you pay a flat rate regardless of how much you use. So, yes - of course - one would need to compare the flat rate versus expected consumption, costs of equipment and installation etc. (In part a lease vs buy decision. Same as anyone leasing versus buying the vehicle to begin with.) One good thing about this program is that the charging is regulated to optimize for off-peak. It shows the direction things are moving.

Damn cheap 'gas'. Up to circa 300m miles a day? No problem. Fill me up while I sleep.
My Bolt EUV has a 270 mile range during the summer. However, I never let it get much lower tha 180. I plug it in at home where I have a 40 amp Juice Box Charger, and at my shop, where it sits all day on the little 120 charger that came with the car.

At my home kilowatt per hour rate, I am getting the equivalent of a gas car that gets around 120 mpg.

Of course, I had to buy the car. $38,500. Then the Juice Box home charger was $750. But I installed it myself.
The single biggest advantage of using the EV for my 92 mile commute every day, six days a week is not having to stop and get gas. Since December 23 of last year, I have put 19,200 miles on it.

That’s 19,200 miles I have not put on my truck. In fact, since last December, I have only driven my truck to work three times. It’s relegated to trips to the range and long trips.
 
REALLY attractive in South Florida???
Isn't that where they have those things called HURRICAINS that dump lots of WATER on you and sucks you and your house up and you end up moving (weather you want to or not) to another town down the road? (ask Dorothy about that :eek:)
And if I remember correctly, something was said about EVs and WATER not mixing? And with that "dedicated 240 volt charger in my garage, you sleep with ONE EYE OPEN?? :oops:
 
From what I understand, there have been 19 Bolts that have caught fire, not due to water intrusion but contaminated Lithium from the battery manufacturer (not GM). One Volt caught fire after what was considered an exceptionally devastating crash, the root cause of the fire was incorrect software. No HUMMER fires, No LYRIQ fires. Water intrusion is an issue with all batteries. Most recalls are for improper application of sealant (by some robotic equipment) or battery replacement because the module or sensor needing replacement within the battery, and considered non serviceable in the field at this time, That will likely change in the future, maybe. FWIW: If I owned an EV,, just to be sure, it would not be parked in the garage.

Tesla appears to lead EV fires (and annoying, inconsiderate drivers).
 
Isn't that where they have those things called HURRICAINS that dump lots of WATER on you and sucks you and your house up and you end up moving (weather you want to or not) to another town down the road? (ask Dorothy about that :eek:)
And if I remember correctly, something was said about EVs and WATER not mixing? And with that "dedicated 240 volt charger in my garage, you sleep with ONE EYE OPEN?? :oops:

Err NO. It's where a lot of people are moving TO.

No more worried about a 240V circuit in my garage than the several in my kitchen right next to it... (North America is the exception rather than the rule when it comes to voltages and many home appliances suffer as a result.)

PS: there were many, many multiples of gasoline vehicles than EVs wrecked by flash flooding in Ft Lauderdale a few months back. Flood waters don't mix with much for a good result.
 
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That figure is from 2021. (Nuclear was 20% and US natural gas 67%.) They've been investing heavily in solar and also storage and so that number will be higher today. Coal is being completely phased out (thankfully).

Read away. The 'catch' is you have to commit for 10 years. The other catch is if you do charge your vehicle during peak hours you pay a premium - so don't do that and let the pre-programming favor off-peak charging.

Of course power is power and fungible once on the grid and, yes, there's a bit of a marketing gimmick in the renewable claim, but given the investment in solar and storage and the rate it is increasing they can claim that demand for EV charging from this plan is being met by investment in renewables.
 
The devil is always in the details. According to the above offer, you are limited to charging nights and weekends, currently considered off peak hours.
At what point in the 10 year plan will nights and weekends be considered peak hours when everyone is home charging their car? And will you still be locked into using only night and weekend hours?

The most famous car ever built for burning occupants to death after a collision is the Ford Pinto. Depending on who you believe, after somewhere between 6-30 deaths a recall was Inacted to correct the problem.

So far there have been over 90 deaths in Tesla’s alone due to fires after collisions. Not to mention any other fires and property damage caused by spontaneous combustion, something a Ford Pinto was never linked to.

The electric vehicle industry is seemingly getting a pass in regards to vehicle safety, truth in advertising and how it will eventually save the world.

It’s a great new technology, it’s just that almost everything about the industry is a complete lie, with enhanced sales made possible with tax payer dollars.

If you own one because it fits your needs, congratulations, If you buy one because you believe the lies told about safety, environmental savings and usability outside a narrow window, you didn’t do your homework.

Way to many vehicles with less problems have been recalled or removed production, to not get the idea that the EV industry is getting a pass based on nods, winks, and kickbacks.
 
The devil is always in the details. According to the above offer, you are limited to charging nights and weekends, currently considered off peak hours.
At what point in the 10 year plan will nights and weekends be considered peak hours when everyone is home charging their car? And will you still be locked into using only night and weekend hours?

The hours and, in the case of weekends, the days are defined. They don't get to reinvent the clock to suit themselves.

And you aren't locked into off-peak and weekends either. You can charge at any time. You pay a premium if you have to charge during peak periods.

Good luck fellas.
 
In a better world, we would prioritize how to generate safe clean power and how to build the grid before we would assume the role of politicians is to ban oil/coal first and not ask where the energy would come from or how to move it.

Doing things in the wrong order can only lead to one conclusion. The plan to fail and crash the system is intentional. Sort of like forcing a huge change in healthcare first then finding out how bad that idea really was. Now the damage is done and it is too late for anyone reading this to fix it.

Does anyone recall "you have to pass this bill to find out what is in it" or "if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor"? EVs are being pushed on us by those same folks.

They have no plan and know they can hide the math and push a story before folks wake up. By then it is too late.

Nothing would stop the government from taking a lead role in pushing for a nuclear grid while they work the alternatives in the background.

Even if the generators are ignored for a moment, the emergency of the grid upgrades is a formidable task yet they have no solution or plan in place if given all the electricity to replace gas today.

Just ask them how much energy change that is for the present grid and they give you that blank stare and take someone else's question. They have been told to push the oil/coal bans but have not been told how much that will take, because in my opinion there was never any intention of solving the problem.

So if we take a 7th grade view to keep it where politicians can follow the math it is simple to put a rough number on how much we use now and how much it will take to replace gasoline.

When an oil tanker delivers fuel over the roads to a fuel station, you will need to replace that capacity on the grid. Sure, many folks say they charge at home and avoid super chargers, but all of it arrives over the present grid, so isn't it a fair question to ask roughly how much is that? So if you waved a magic wand and all the oil went away today, and there was magic electricity to replace it, how much roughly are we asking about?

Most numbers are published but the ones that are missing do not require calculus or statistics to estimate.

1695581082892.png

The US national average household energy consumption statistic is 29 kWh per day at the last estimate. That is just for perspective, it doesn't include industrial use.

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The last US total electrical consumption was 4.05T kWh for 2022.

If we divide that by 365 days to get a rough US daily average that is 11,100,000,000 kWh per day

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The US average gasoline consumption per day is roughly 370,000,000 gallons per day.

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To convert that gasoline in gallons to energy in kWh, we multiply by roughly 33.7 kWh per gallon, which brings the gasoline energy use per day to roughly 12,469,000,000 kWh per day.

For perspective that is 11.1x10^9 kWh now but an additional 12.5x10^9 kWh per day or an increase of 112% of our present consumption energy capacity per day just for the gasoline to change to electricity.

I didn't add diesel yet, which adds even greater burden to the grid to convert to electrical energy.
I didn't mention that diesel does the heavy lifting in the world, but most folks are not familiar with all that so for now lets just play dumb and focus on gasoline.

As a short term goal, places like the Post Office, School busses, and those who have access to 440V3PH power can handle overnight charging without a huge upset to the grid. Why not try to study those first and see how things go? If this is the emergency they say it is, why isn't that done first?

Households don't have the zoning for industrial three phase power, even if it is close by. Maybe they should re-think those rules and drop us the lines for efficient charging? Maybe there is a reason for this?

It will still not answer a looming question of how will the electrical power be generated when a significant fraction of the cars switch over due to laws and mandates by force or executive fiat.

It is very clear we can't do it even past the 50 year horizon and even the last Argonne National Labs study concluded that the 50 year horizon favors the plug in hybrid, not the EV. You can't dig up the copper fast enough to meet those deadlines, not in the US or world wide.

Would it be fair to say that the economics of either gasoline or electricity would be upset by political mandates, or another way of saying this is if they ban gasoline or diesel use that the costs of those will skyrocket as oil investments are cut back as the bans approach?

Most folks will adapt to things that make sense, but this isn't about making sense if the plan is to ban the fuel before they have the plan to generate the alternative. This isn't really about how well EV's work or don't, it is about a change in society and power politics in the face of the physics of doing the work. If you ban oil/coal before you have the alternative, you will starve the planet.

To get diesel into perspective, multiply barrels by 42. Diesel use was 3,850,000 barrels per day x42 = 161,700,000 gallons per day. Diesel is roughly 38 kWh per gallon, so the electric energy power replacement would require roughly another 6,144,600,000 kWh per day to the grid.

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Ask for the plan to upgrade the grid, not just here but all over the world, or how they will explain the extra electrical power to account for the oil/coal ban and see what their answer is. You may not look at the whole topic as just EV versus oil any more. YMMV
 
AND the electricity provided is from 100% renewable.
That is patently false.
Of course power is power and fungible once on the grid and, yes, there's a bit of a marketing gimmick in the renewable claim, but given the investment in solar and storage and the rate it is increasing they can claim that demand for EV charging from this plan is being met by investment in renewables.
No, they cannot claim the charge electricity is from 100% renewable sources, under any reasonable analysis. Any other industry, false advertising lawsuits would almost certainly succeed, unless you can point to some fine print I don't see.
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I think FPL have a good handle on their grid and where they need to invest. Perhaps other providers in other locations have less so or are grappling with even worse existing infrastructure. And, yes, FPL and other providers across the world will have to invest wisely. Luckily the transition isn’t occurring overnight. Of course, the U.S. generally has a big issue with respect to a historical lack of investment in infrastructure and with respect to the electricity sector there is also deficiency in interstate connectivity.

@Brians356 if you have such a strong view then sue them… Best of luck to you.
 
I think FPL have a good handle on their grid and where they need to invest.
Can Florida stand alone if the rest of the world burns?

CA has 2.8 times the land area of FL, but the FL population per SQ MI is 1.6X of CA, where there are people, they tend to concentrate, yet the mean commute to work times for both states is something like 25 - 30 minutes. Both states have vast amounts of unpopulated lands.

So your distribution grid is younger and more focused than CA.
In FL there are 5.1k miles of high tension lines, and 2.2k miles of low tension lines.
In CA there are 4.4k Miles of high tension lines and 10.3k miles of low tension lines.

Florida showed a total net generation of 250,828 GWh
California showed a total net generation of 277,764 GWh

Can you see the problem coming?

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How far do we take this before we blink and postpone (or better yet eliminate) these made up deadlines and bans?

If we are really thinking in terms of what is best for the world or even just the US, should we be raiding treasury to subsidize EVs?
 

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