Are Ranks of Shooters Growing or Shrinking?

[JFrank]

That is happening here as well. The long range matches at Missoula have a hunter class that is intended for folks with hunting and PRS style rifles. It kind of follows a PRS style but they shoot with the sling and/or F Class folks. Locally we have always allowed hunters to shoot with us. We can help them get on paper but they don't show on a regular basis. They'd burn those skinny barrels out in a couple of matches.

I stopped by a high power match in Missoula a couple years ago, hopping to see an old friend but he wasn’t there and nobody seemed to know what was going on or who was in charge. I thought to make small talk but most just ignored me, after about 45 minutes we just left.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I stopped by a high power match in Missoula a couple years ago, hopping to see an old friend but he wasn’t there and nobody seemed to know what was going on or who was in charge. I thought to make small talk but most just ignored me, after about 45 minutes we just left.

My guess is that you were in the wrong area. Everyone who attends these matches knows the one person who runs them and what the status is. If you were in the right area (beyond the gate that is closed so noone runs across the 1000 yard range) then the group may have been down shooting midrange and the folks you talked to were not any of the participants.

P.S. this sounds like a familiar story. Are you sure it was an F Class match? They run a lot of different types of matches there including benchrest, sling, black powder, across the course and others.

 

[JFrank]

My guess is that you were in the wrong area. Everyone who attends these matches knows the one person who runs them and what the status is. If you were in the right area (beyond the gate that is closed so noone runs across the 1000 yard range) then the group may have been down shooting midrange and the folks you talked to were not any of the participants.

P.S. this sounds like a familiar story. Are you sure it was an F Class match? They run a lot of different types of matches there including benchrest, sling, black powder, across the course and others.

Hey Ron, yes I have the combo to get in being part of the Mt1000 club, I was on the 1000 yard firing line under cover where we shoot from our bench’s , the fellas were just getting done with the 900 meter/yard shooting on the first mound. Some were chatting right next me while others were eating a sandwich talking amongst them selves. Interesting you mention it is a familiar story.
We have visitors at our matches quite often and they are shown around, treated well and sometimes invited to work pit duty if they wish to hang out.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Hey Ron, yes I have the combo to get in being part of the Mt1000 club, I was on the 1000 yard firing line under cover where we shoot from our bench’s , the fellas were just getting done with the 900 meter/yard shooting on the first mound. Some were chatting right next me while others were eating a sandwich talking amongst them selves. Interesting you mention it is a familiar story.
We have visitors at our matches quite often and they are shown around, treated well and sometimes invited to work pit duty if they wish to hang out.

That does not sound like an F Class match. F Class shoots in front of the benches on the flat section in a prone position. So do the sling shooters. At 800 and 900 it takes a while for people to migrate back to the next firing position. If someone showed up at any of those firing lines, it would be packed if it were an active line. Generally 3-4 relays across all the targets. 40 to 50 people or even more at some matches. Lot more than a couple of guys chatting or eating a sandwich.

 

[JFrank]

That does not sound like an F Class match. F Class shoots in front of the benches on the flat section in a prone position. So do the sling shooters. At 800 and 900 it takes a while for people to migrate back to the next firing position. If someone showed up at any of those firing lines, it would be packed if it were an active line. Generally 3-4 relays across all the targets. 40 to 50 people or even more at some matches. Lot more than a couple of guys chatting or eating a sandwich.

Either way F class of sling, I wasn’t treated rudely rather ignored. I have no desire to attend another one, I’ll stick with BR.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Either way F class of sling, I wasn’t treated rudely rather ignored. I have no desire to attend another one, I’ll stick with BR.

I've been to a bunch of different types of matches. I never expect people to engage me but rather I try to engage them. Sometimes there heads are in a different space. I'm surprised when they do engage first. Especially since their minds are likely on how they blew that last string and what they will do this time. I've been there. We all have.

 

[JFrank]

I’m just sharing my experience with that crowd, I drove 4 hours to get there and ask where the match director was, tried to make small talk and ask a couple questions. I suppose my point is that if guys want to expand their base a good place to start Is with the news guys that show up.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I’m just sharing my experience with that crowd, I drove 4 hours to get there and ask where the match director was, tried to make small talk and ask a couple questions. I suppose my point is that if guys want to expand their base a good place to start Is with the news guys that show up.

I agree. I guess I'm a bit defensive because the folks I know and shoot with are held to a higher standard in my mind. If they were being pricks they'd get an earful.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Well I for one enjoy FClass and shooting steel I’m not dedicated enough to shoot Bench rest.

 

[JimPag]

So after 11+ pages of meandering posts, it appears that attendance is some comps is increasing, while in others it's decreasing. Rather than try to sort out which one is doing what, I want to focus on IBS Short Range Score.

As JimPag pointed out in a couple of posts, using real data, there's been a large decline in score competitor numbers in the last few seasons. He also said this in a post on page 5 of this thread:

"Look at the NBRSA Nationals they just had where Cascarino kicked everyone's ass. What was it something like 76 in VFS and like 46 in Hunter Class! I mean are you kidding me!! NBRSA must be doing something right because in the 11 Seasons that I have been shooting the most in IBS SR VFS at a Nationals that I have seen is 56 at Weikert, PA in 2017. IBS SR score vs NBRSA SR score is a joke. Like I said they are doing something right."

In the following 6 pages, not one contributor addressed his point. So, I'll just ask this question:

How can NBRSA, a dedicated Group Shooting organization, garner such a large number of Score Competitors, while IBS Short Range, a dedicated Score Shooting one, can't?

Please feel free to share any ideas and/or suggestions.

SJ

Chris. Just look at this past weekends IBS 100-200 meter Score Nationals and not one person posted the results. 25 shooters in VFS and 8 in Hunter. Where is the IBS member who posted every match he shot last year on this site because he was doing good and this year he hasn't posted once because he can't win a match to save his life. It's the old look at me, look at me because I'm doing good syndrome.

 

[Tommie]

I dabbled (or attempted to dabble) in 3 forms of competitive shooting. For the most part, all the friendly and helpful people we hear about must have stayed home. The closest thing I encountered to “assistance” was condescending lectures. No thank you.

Nothing but the best wishes to all participants in the competitive shooting world, but eventually all the old men die off and the game’s over.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I dabbled (or attempted to dabble) in 3 forms of competitive shooting. For the most part, all the friendly and helpful people we hear about must have stayed home. The closest thing I encountered to “assistance” was condescending lectures. No thank you.

Nothing but the best wishes to all participants in the competitive shooting world, but eventually all the old men die off and the game’s over.

Ouch! Is this before or after the Bill of Rights are revoked?

 

[Eagle Six]

On the subject of increasing ranks by encouraging new younger competitors for benchrest disciplines, one of the stumbling blocks is, it's boring. I don't say that as an insult.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

On the subject of increasing ranks by encouraging new younger competitors for benchrest disciplines, one of the stumbling blocks is, it's boring. I don't say that as an insult.

But I think your right

 

[urbanrifleman]

On the subject of increasing ranks by encouraging new younger competitors for benchrest disciplines, one of the stumbling blocks is, it's boring. I don't say that as an insult.

I'd say the largest stumbling block is when you show up to a benchrest competition and they tell you that you need to have about eight grand to get started... haha

"Hey Mom can I borrow 8 grand?"

 

[Eagle Six]

I'd say the largest stumbling block is when you show up to a benchrest competition and they tell you that you need to have about eight grand to get started... haha

"Hey Mom can I borrow 8 grand?"

Yep, 8 grand can buy a skydiving canopy, video gear and enough lessons for an 'A' license, or a nice used souped up side-by-side, a motor-cross bike for single track, or a lot of camping, hiking, climbing gear, or a super fast gaming computer. There are a lot of sport type activities to draw the attention of teens, 20's and 30 year old kids that are both mind and body challenging and many fast paced.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Yep, 8 grand can buy a skydiving canopy, video gear and enough lessons for an 'A' license, or a nice used souped up side-by-side, a motor-cross bike for single track, or a lot of camping, hiking, climbing gear, or a super fast gaming computer. There are a lot of sport type activities to draw the attention of teens, 20's and 30 year old kids that are both mind and body challenging and many fast paced.

My folks never spent $80 on any of my activities when I was a kid. Much less $8,000.

When I bought parts for my BMX bike or my skateboard it was like I was asking for the crown jewels.

Things have really changed since the 1970s hahaha. Boy howdy.

 

[Eagle Six]

My folks never spent $80 on any of my activities when I was a kid. Much less $8,000.

When I bought parts for my BMX bike or my skateboard it was like I was asking for the crown jewels.

Things have really changed since the 1970s hahaha. Boy howdy.

Pretty much the same, at 8 years old I started mowing grass and shoveling snow to earn the money for bikes, hunting, trapping, and fishing gear. But I'm also thinking of the young adults that are maybe married and raising kids, they don't have 8 grand disposable cash, but they can finance a quad or side-by-side and hit the desert or woods for a weekend outing with their friends and family. Of course the shooting sports aren't dead, it just seems to me that some of the less action type shooting lacks drawing attention to other more rewarding sports.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Pretty much the same, at 8 years old I started mowing grass and shoveling snow to earn the money for bikes, hunting, trapping, and fishing gear. But I'm also thinking of the young adults that are maybe married and raising kids, they don't have 8 grand disposable cash, but they can finance a quad or side-by-side and hit the desert or woods for a weekend outing with their friends and family. Of course the shooting sports aren't dead, it just seems to me that some of the less action type shooting lacks drawing attention to other more rewarding sports.

Honestly I think people love shooting off benches and making small groups. At least all the people I take to shoot seem to love it. The benchrest guys did it to themselves by making their equipment so restrictive. There was no effort really made to move with the times and then when COVID hit the suppliers just completely abandoned that small niche market. At least that's the way I see it. I'm not sure there's any of the mainstream companies that are making anything for short line bench rest

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Granted, BR is not a spectator sport but if you think it's boring...you're not doing it right. When I'm shooting well, I get up from the bench with my hands shaking like a leaf...especially in tough conditions. I'm that into what I'm doing at the time. That feeling is one of the best things about the sport but the people are absolutely top spot holders. The game offers excitement, if you want it. No, it's not running around banging away at steel plates or hostage targets but I played that game too. It was more of a strategic game, to beat the course designer, than a shooting game. The winners were the ones who figured out the most efficient way to shoot stages. Nothing wrong with that but I didn't get the same feeling that I do shooting BR. Different strokes but you get from it, what you put into it.

Loading ammo doesn't have to be as laborious as some make it in short range. The real work isn't so bad at all. It's shooting a lot and practicing well. I started paying attention to all the little brass prep steps and the difference they made on the target a long time ago and started putting less time into that and more time into good quality practice and shooting more. It paid off with a national championship. Life has gotten in the way for a few years and my lack of work...err shooting and good practice is showing and I suck, by my own standards. I can fix that but it's gonna take some time to get back.

As for equipment, it matters but a good shooting mentor can be a huge help with that. He can shoot your gun and tell you if your gun and equipment are competitive as well as help with load work if that's where the problem is, and do that in a day's time. It's not about shooting zero's but about not screwing up. Yes, we all want that magical bbl that shoots tiny but realistically, ain't no such thing as a bbl that shoots through a switch in the flags. A solid sub .2 tune will win a lot of fake wood, group and score. It won't win them all but neither will the most accurate gun on the planet. Something about the Indian and how bad he wants it.