Barrel tuners. Good or a waste of time?

[Gene Beggs]

If Im reading this right you dont find anything that shoot well until you get off jam at least .015"? Do you know how far in the lands your typical hard jam is? Have you seen this with long bullets or is this based only on sr br type bullets? Thanks!

Alex, with the neck tension I normally use with my 6mm boat tail bullets, which I describe as medium, 'hard jam' pushes the bullet .020, sometimes .025 into the lands after touch.

I don't use any bullet longer than 68 grain boat tails which are made on .825 J-4 jackets. I have no experience with the longer, heavier bullets used in 600 and 1000 yard matches.
Perhaps Bart Sauter will chime in and tell us where he seats his long range bullets. He is shooting extremely well this year.

Later,

Gene Beggs

 

[Tim Singleton]

Regarding my advice on seating depth, you asked, "Does this apply to all calibers and ranges?" No, probably not but if I was to begin experimenting with a new-to-me cartridge and bullet, 'Just off the lands" is where I would begin
Again, keep in mind that I'm a short-range group shooter, but it has been my experience that when I start at hard 'jam', and gradually increase the length of the seater stem in .005 increments, the horizontal abruptly disappears around .015 to .020 off of 'jam.' Continuing to push bullets back, again in .005 increments, to as much as .040 off jam appears to have no affect on horizontal.

Hope this helps someone.

I just shot this seating depth test the other day

Several have asked whether you should do initial testing with or without the tuner installed. I say, definitely with the tuner installed and set to zero. It can be done either way but why bother and put more rounds than necessary down the tube.

When I chamber a new barrel, I also thread the muzzle for the tuner and conduct initial load testing with the tuner set to 'zero.' It seems a waste of time to do otherwise.

I shoot only short-range group with either my 220Beggs or 6Beggs in a 10.5 pound Hall Sporter. I use either Krieger or Bartlein barrels cut to 22 inches. I know what muzzle velocity to expect and obtain that with whatever powder I'm using at the time. I've used N133, pulldown 8208, H-322, LT-32, Benchmark, H4198 etc. They all work fine in either cartridge; same goes for the 22 and 6PPC. My 220 likes to shoot at 3500 to 3550 and the 6mm at 3330 to 3350 so there is no time wasted testing at any other velocities. Once I reach the desired velocity as shown by the Oehler 35 chronograph, I lock the Jones powder measure at that setting and NEVER change it.

Seating depth? As far as I'm concerned there is only one; JUST OFF THE LANDS. Yep, I don't waste time with anything else. So with that said and accomplished, it leaves me with only one thing to tune; THE TUNER, and it's the easiest thing in the world.

Hope this helps someone.

Later, Gene Beggs

My 30 years of experience in benchrest have been limited to short-range (100 & 200 yd) group shooting. When I make a statement about something I try to remind others of this. I also try to remember to say, "In my opinion" or "In my experience" when I can't absolutely prove something.

Regarding my advice on seating depth, you asked, "Does this apply to all calibers and ranges?" No, probably not but if I was to begin experimenting with a new-to-me Again, keep in mind that I'm a short-range group shooter, but it has been my experience that when I start at hard 'jam', and gradually increase the length of the seater stem in .005 increments, the horizontal abruptly disappears around .015 to .020 off of 'jam.' Continuing to push bullets back, again in .005 increments, to as much as .040 off jam appears to have no affect on horizontal.

Hope this helps someone.

I shot this seating depth test the other day. As Gene says the horizontal will abruptly disappear
Jam to touch. Top to bottom
Then I will screw a tuner on and get it to swallow as wide a powder load as I can get it to

 

[Gene Beggs]

I just shot this seating depth test the other day. As Gene says the horizontal will abruptly disappear, Jam to touch. Top to bottom.

That's a good report Tim. Glad you had the same results that I have experienced. Many won't believe it because it flies in the face of accepted wisdom but it's true!

Later,

Gene Beggs

 

[Chrisjan]

May I please ask to explain the initial tuning of the tuner to a certain quadrant?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

May I please ask to explain the initial tuning of the tuner to a certain quadrant?

Gotta start somewhere

 

[savagedasher]

It depends on the tuner you’re using
It should be on the tuner manufacturer
Site

 

[Trevor60]

I just shot this seating depth test the other day


I shot this seating depth test the other day. As Gene says the horizontal will abruptly disappear
Jam to touch. Top to bottom
Then I will screw a tuner on and get it to swallow as wide a powder load as I can get it to

Which bullets were you using during your seating depth testing.
Gene was using 68 grain boat tails which are made on .825 J-4 jackets

Thank you
Trevor

 

[Tim Singleton]

Which bullets were you using during your seating depth testing.
Gene was using 68 grain boat tails which are made on .825 J-4 jackets

Thank you
Trevor

66 gr bt made on Sierra 810 jacket

 

[Tim Singleton]

Definitely not a waste of time
But I think everyone needs to know how to tune their rifle to its best without it
IME there are times when conditions change or when you are fooled by the seating depth you chose and no amount of tuner twisting will help a seating depth change has to be made.

 

[dskogman]

I’ve just started using a tuner for F class and want to thank everyone for sharing their knowledge. It’s certainly saved me a lot of time and effort trying to figure them out. They do work though. I shot my personal best at 1K using one this last weekend (200/14x).

The only thing I have to add, which being new to tuners and may not be worth much, is small changes at 300 are much bigger at 1K so make even smaller adjustments at longer ranges.

 

[rardoin]

small changes at 300 are much bigger at 1K so make even smaller adjustments at longer ranges.

I have found the same.

 

[seymour fish]

Anybody remember the BOSS tuner/brake on factory Browning and Winchester hunting rifles years ago. The more common version combined the two functions and certainly never worked for me on a 7mm-08 A-Bolt. Reading Mike E's posts though I was undoubtedly making far too coarse adjustments which wouldn't have helped. In any event, the extra-cost BOSS fitting was apparently a commercial flop on this type of hunting rifle and I'm not sure it's still available although Browning still has a web page for it.

https://www.browning.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/boss-system.html

This is a really interesting discussion. As my old friend Les (Geordiesniper) says, we see many brakes but very few tuners in CF BR in the UK, although some have turned up in top-level F-Open for rifles chambered in 300WSMs and similar.

Laurie, Had one in 25-06. Developed a load at desired MV, with ES of 5. Any movement of the boss moved the POI 2-3” at 100. A maddening flop. Seymour

 

[Tim Singleton]

Laurie, Had one in 25-06. Developed a load at desired MV, with ES of 5. Any movement of the boss moved the POI 2-3” at 100. A maddening flop. Seymour

That BOSS probably sat everyone’s acceptance of tuners back 20 years!

 

[Terry]

Definitely not a waste of time
But I think everyone needs to know how to tune their rifle to its best without it
IME there are times when conditions change or when you are fooled by the seating depth you chose and no amount of tuner twisting will help a seating depth change has to be made.

Tim

I shoot long range. We test for seating depth and load to that. When would a change be called for, other than by barrel ware?

Thanks!

 

[Bart B.]

That BOSS probably sat everyone’s acceptance of tuners back 20 years!

The only thing worse than the hardware was Browning's claim of how it worked.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Tim

I shoot long range. We test for seating depth and load to that. When would a change be called for, other than by barrel ware?

Thanks!

The first and worst thing is when you picked the wrong depth
Unless I'm the only one that's ever been fooled by a load

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Tim

I shoot long range. We test for seating depth and load to that. When would a change be called for, other than by barrel ware?

Thanks!

Any time the temp or humidity changes

 

[Terry]

Any time the temp or humidity changes

How do you change seating depth when these change?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

How do you change seating depth when these change?

With my loading press or tuner

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Something I think that should be noted about tuners, and one of my reasons for not loving them is that they can stunt a competitors knowledge. What I mean is that I feel like a shooter should know how to tune a barrel, read targets, understand when to adjust powder, seating or components before he tries a tuner. If you start with a tuner all you will learn is to turn the tuner, if that doesnt work then what? I usually recommend them for your second barrel if your new to Benchrest. JMO.