Are Ranks of Shooters Growing or Shrinking?

[jackieschmidt]

That sounds good. Im gonna suggest something like that to our rifle club. Did you advertise it or just word of mouth? Were you able to reach the general public?

Our matches are pretty well known in the Houston Metro area. It is basically word of mouth. For our Club Matches, we welcome all comers. We also have a Modified Class for Rifles in between Factory and all out Benchrest Rifles.
Here are our rules.

http://www.tgcwebsite.com/pdfs/match_scores/VFS/VFS_Rules.pdf

 

[ronsatspokane]

That is fantastic. Its our obligation to share our knowledge and experience with the youth. I understand some refuse to learn. Thats unfortunate but a lot just dont understand or know whats available to them out there. They only know what theyre exposed to and unfortunately theyre exposed to a ton of ignorance through social media and biased news networks, other uninformed adults and much more.

Some have interest but need guidance. Theres tons of misinformation being spewed out there from fudd lore, to wannabe range commandos to outright lies.

I think itd be great if clubs started offering a shoot for people who dont own anything or perhaps do but it just lives in the closet. Some type of shoot where people are there for fun, to educate, to learn not just compete.

Those in need of guidance include many of the people we see at the range who are already firearms owners and have no idea about the range of opportunities open to them.

I've talked to people who are AR aficionados. Some of them have built their own guns and are testing for accuracy, some are new owners who just bought one off the shelf for home defense and are trying it out. I can tell you that none of them have ever heard of High Power or Across the Course. I describe the opportunity to them and provide them with contact info so they can talk to the folks who run the program. Don't know if anyone has availed themselves of the opportunity.

I've had better luck with the bolt gun crowd. I see people testing loads they developed and are clearly looking for better accuracy. They have dreams of shooting accurately at longer ranges. When I tell them about F Class they seem genuinely interested. Some of them have shown up to matches with their rifles. Some just to watch. This range is not a national range with a lot of hard core benchrest or F Class shooters but some of them are still intimidated by the distance and the knowledge base required to get on target at 600 yards (won't even mention 1000 yards). I tell them to drag their rifles to the line and we will get them on paper. Some do. Some of those are hooked and continue.

 

[ronsatspokane]

At our

Tomball Club Matches, we have a Factory Class.And we mean Factory Rifles suited for field use.
Last year we had decent turnouts in Factory. And, (this is very important), I emphasize that they should in no way compare their equipment and level to those of us who compete on a regular basis. That would be a formula for discouragement.

Compare yourself, and your Rifle to like shooters using similar equipment.

That is happening here as well. The long range matches at Missoula have a hunter class that is intended for folks with hunting and PRS style rifles. It kind of follows a PRS style but they shoot with the sling and/or F Class folks. Locally we have always allowed hunters to shoot with us. We can help them get on paper but they don't show on a regular basis. They'd burn those skinny barrels out in a couple of matches.

 

[LiveFire]

Those in need of guidance include many of the people we see at the range who are already firearms owners and have no idea about the range of opportunities open to them.

I've talked to people who are AR aficionados. Some of them have built their own guns and are testing for accuracy, some are new owners who just bought one off the shelf for home defense and are trying it out. I can tell you that none of them have ever heard of High Power or Across the Course. I describe the opportunity to them and provide them with contact info so they can talk to the folks who run the program. Don't know if anyone has availed themselves of the opportunity.

.

We have a 200 and 300 yard AR style rifle shoot every month at our range. We shoot iron sight and scoped. It is basically the same dozen people. But there is no advertising, just word of mouth. They also have a varmint rifle and a midwest varmint shoot. Ive not been able to make it to the last two this year. We have numerous other shoots, pistol, rimfire atc but once again its basically the same people. Id like to change that.

There is also a DNR public 100yd range about 5 miles away. I feel like a lot go there because its free. However we only charge $50 a year to be a member and have access to a 300yd range, trap range, and archery range. Seems like a very good deal to me.

 

[Brians356]

The grocery bill has taken up all the funds that used to be available ; )
Dan

You must not keep good records. The Big Guy sez the Inflation Reduction Act is a huge success, and seniors in particular have benefited immensely.
-

 

[Larry Koch]

Vista and Blackrock investments are keeping prices high as long as they can.

 

[ronsatspokane]

We have a 200 and 300 yard AR style rifle shoot every month at our range. We shoot iron sight and scoped. It is basically the same dozen people. But there is no advertising, just word of mouth. They also have a varmint rifle and a midwest varmint shoot. Ive not been able to make it to the last two this year. We have numerous other shoots, pistol, rimfire atc but once again its basically the same people. Id like to change that.

There is also a DNR public 100yd range about 5 miles away. I feel like a lot go there because its free. However we only charge $50 a year to be a member and have access to a 300yd range, trap range, and archery range. Seems like a very good deal to me.

50 bucks is a very good deal these days.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Well went to Washington State Prone Match a Couple weeks back.
This was a American/Canadian get together for years. It was Range Capacity with a waiting list.
This year about 37 shooters on Saturday and 30 on Sunday.
I understand the problems in Canada, not a shooter came down.
We missed them.

 

[jimmymac]

I understand the problems in Canada, not a shooter came down.

Can you elaborate? Thanks.

 

[Liven The Dream]

Can you elaborate? Thanks.

As told to me one thing Paper Work to come over and cost.

 

[hogpatrol]

In the last few years at our club, two new shooting events have been well attended, two gun and steel challenge (pistol) both open to non members.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Shrinking.

I used to work the Dayton gun shows in Ohio back in the 1990s. We used to bring Wolf ammunition in by the pallet everyday. We would typically do five or six pallets of Wolf AK ammo a weekend. People would bring in moving dollies when they bought ammunition.

Multiple times a day guys with moving dollies bringing vans to the show and would literally buy 10,000 rounds of ammo. To go shoot it and then come back the next show and buy another.

There were lots of them.

The competitive shooters in the 1990s that went to Perry would vastly outnumber the ones today (that would be my guess, but I have no direct data).

Everything stopped with the baby boomers. The ranks of shooters, as we know them today, are essentially just the baby boomers and the smattering of people following them. When the baby boomers are gone, the percentages left will be small in comparison.

And these teenagers barely go outside for any physical activity. It doesn't matter if it's baseball or soccer or football or tennis or shooting. Recreational numbers are plummeting post COVID. Here in Tulsa it's evident simply by the number of outdoor facilities that are being turned into lay down yards for oil companies or just left to go to weeds because no one's using them. There aren't enough of the imports from Mexico in Tulsa left to keep the soccer fields filled like 10 years ago.

These parents are raising an entire generation of shut in couch potato children that stare at their phones all day.

So I'm going to go with "shrinking" .

 

[AccelR8]

I used to work the Dayton gun shows in Ohio back in the 1990s. We used to bring Wolf ammunition in by the pallet everyday. We would typically do five or six pallets of Wolf AK ammo a weekend. People would bring in moving dollies when they bought ammunition.

Multiple times a day guys with moving dollies bringing vans to the show and would literally buy 10,000 rounds of ammo. To go shoot it and then come back the next show and buy another.

There were lots of them.

The competitive shooters in the 1990s that went to Perry would vastly outnumber the ones today (that would be my guess, but I have no direct data).

Ha ha, reminds me of something...it was Autumn of 1999. All the talk about Y2K and people buying survival rations and how society was going to be thrown back to the 1800's.

I was at a gun show picking up some ammo I had ordered. I was a High Power/Service Rifle shooter and was shooting quite a bit each year. I had a two-wheel hand truck with three 1,000 round cases on it (wasn't Wolf by the way ). Now as many here know that's not a whole lot of ammo for a competitive shooter.

As I went out the entry and exit door a local cop who was working security there goes "Holy crap, ya got enough for the millennium or what?"

I gave him the best dirty look I could muster and kept walking.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I stopped by a high power match in Missoula a couple years ago, hopping to see an old friend but he wasn’t there and nobody seemed to know what was going on or who was in charge. I thought to make small talk but most just ignored me, after about 45 minutes we just left.

My guess is that you were in the wrong area. Everyone who attends these matches knows the one person who runs them and what the status is. If you were in the right area (beyond the gate that is closed so noone runs across the 1000 yard range) then the group may have been down shooting midrange and the folks you talked to were not any of the participants.

P.S. this sounds like a familiar story. Are you sure it was an F Class match? They run a lot of different types of matches there including benchrest, sling, black powder, across the course and others.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Hey Ron, yes I have the combo to get in being part of the Mt1000 club, I was on the 1000 yard firing line under cover where we shoot from our bench’s , the fellas were just getting done with the 900 meter/yard shooting on the first mound. Some were chatting right next me while others were eating a sandwich talking amongst them selves. Interesting you mention it is a familiar story.
We have visitors at our matches quite often and they are shown around, treated well and sometimes invited to work pit duty if they wish to hang out.

That does not sound like an F Class match. F Class shoots in front of the benches on the flat section in a prone position. So do the sling shooters. At 800 and 900 it takes a while for people to migrate back to the next firing position. If someone showed up at any of those firing lines, it would be packed if it were an active line. Generally 3-4 relays across all the targets. 40 to 50 people or even more at some matches. Lot more than a couple of guys chatting or eating a sandwich.

 

[ronsatspokane]

Either way F class of sling, I wasn’t treated rudely rather ignored. I have no desire to attend another one, I’ll stick with BR.

I've been to a bunch of different types of matches. I never expect people to engage me but rather I try to engage them. Sometimes there heads are in a different space. I'm surprised when they do engage first. Especially since their minds are likely on how they blew that last string and what they will do this time. I've been there. We all have.

 

[ronsatspokane]

I’m just sharing my experience with that crowd, I drove 4 hours to get there and ask where the match director was, tried to make small talk and ask a couple questions. I suppose my point is that if guys want to expand their base a good place to start Is with the news guys that show up.

I agree. I guess I'm a bit defensive because the folks I know and shoot with are held to a higher standard in my mind. If they were being pricks they'd get an earful.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Well I for one enjoy FClass and shooting steel I’m not dedicated enough to shoot Bench rest.

 

[JimPag]

So after 11+ pages of meandering posts, it appears that attendance is some comps is increasing, while in others it's decreasing. Rather than try to sort out which one is doing what, I want to focus on IBS Short Range Score.

As JimPag pointed out in a couple of posts, using real data, there's been a large decline in score competitor numbers in the last few seasons. He also said this in a post on page 5 of this thread:

"Look at the NBRSA Nationals they just had where Cascarino kicked everyone's ass. What was it something like 76 in VFS and like 46 in Hunter Class! I mean are you kidding me!! NBRSA must be doing something right because in the 11 Seasons that I have been shooting the most in IBS SR VFS at a Nationals that I have seen is 56 at Weikert, PA in 2017. IBS SR score vs NBRSA SR score is a joke. Like I said they are doing something right."

In the following 6 pages, not one contributor addressed his point. So, I'll just ask this question:

How can NBRSA, a dedicated Group Shooting organization, garner such a large number of Score Competitors, while IBS Short Range, a dedicated Score Shooting one, can't?

Please feel free to share any ideas and/or suggestions.

SJ

Chris. Just look at this past weekends IBS 100-200 meter Score Nationals and not one person posted the results. 25 shooters in VFS and 8 in Hunter. Where is the IBS member who posted every match he shot last year on this site because he was doing good and this year he hasn't posted once because he can't win a match to save his life. It's the old look at me, look at me because I'm doing good syndrome.

 

[Tommie]

I dabbled (or attempted to dabble) in 3 forms of competitive shooting. For the most part, all the friendly and helpful people we hear about must have stayed home. The closest thing I encountered to “assistance” was condescending lectures. No thank you.

Nothing but the best wishes to all participants in the competitive shooting world, but eventually all the old men die off and the game’s over.