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Jan 2023 NRA Highpower RuleBook

Man, you are prophetic. I am going to do just that thing at Rattlesnake this weekend. Figured I'd make a video about the ups and downs of using wind sensor systems on the line. The forecast is for a quartering headwind, so I'm not predicting a super-successful outcome. I'm going to use a Kestrel, a WindZero, and a Calypso independently to see how they can (or can't) benefit the firing solution.

I personally think bluetoothed devices would be illegal under the communications rule (3.22), but we use WiFi to see the target. Who knows how the NRA will rule on that? I've said I think bluetooth wind meters are illegal during matches (under the current rules) and have been roundly criticized for that position. I don't know if anyone has been trying to use them in matches. If they have, I've not noticed them.
I think there’s a difference between a flag, an electric wind meter, and an electric wind meter that talks to a ballistic calculator by any means, wireless or not.

Setting aside whether or not it’s an effective tool, there is no current technological hurdle to having an app continuously make wind calls for you based on calculations from the wind data. I think a lot of people would have a problem with that whether it provides useful into or not. Seems to go against the tradition of using your own senses to make wind calls. I’m not entirely comfortable with allowing wind meters at all, but that’s just me.

That said, I’m eager to see the video. Carry on!
 
I personally think bluetoothed devices would be illegal under the communications rule (3.22), but we use WiFi to see the target. Who knows how the NRA will rule on that? I've said I think bluetooth wind meters are illegal during matches (under the current rules) and have been roundly criticized for that position. I don't know if anyone has been trying to use them in matches. If they have, I've not noticed them.
I’m not advocating the use of these devices and personally think they are more of a distraction than anything, but…an anemometer (personal wind meter) affixed to a scope pole and linked to a smart phone (explicitly allowed by 3.22.c) that is set to airplane mode would not be in opposition to the spirit of any rule that I am aware of. Just because it is associated with miniaturized computing tech does not mean it has real world value in a match. Any wind data will only represent a sliver of the actual dynamic conditions over 66 acres of topography (approx. the size of a 100 position x 1,000 yard range). The human eye hardwired to the brain bucket is a superior real time data analysis calculator in the confines of an NRA approved match.
 
I’m not advocating the use of these devices and personally think they are more of a distraction than anything, but…an anemometer (personal wind meter) affixed to a scope pole and linked to a smart phone (explicitly allowed by 3.22.c) that is set to airplane mode would not be in opposition to the spirit of any rule that I am aware of. Just because it is associated with miniaturized computing tech does not mean it has real world value in a match. Any wind data will only represent a sliver of the actual dynamic conditions over 66 acres of topography (approx. the size of a 100 position x 1,000 yard range). The human eye hardwired to the brain bucket is a superior real time data analysis calculator in the confines of an NRA approved match.
I think it's possible to interpret that either way. Regardless, I agree on how practical that setup would be.

BUT... computers are better than people at this. It's just a matter of implementing the systems. Current technology allows for a wind meter to tell us when to pull the trigger a red or green light would do it. I don't think an anemometer and smart phone are going to be helpful with that, but it could be done. The only limitation is the data that you feed the computer. I don't believe there is any accessible technology that can measure down range wind from behind the firing line, but that's going to change. For example, a camera pointed down range that could see trees, flags, etc combined with AI could probably make better wind calls than people given enough training data. That day is coming - I'd be surprised if someone isn't working on it right now. So we might as well decide explicitly how far we want to let the technology invade the sport before it happens.
 
As I recall the “smart phones in airplane mode” was to allow them to be used as match timers, and the NRA’s idea of “airplane mode” was that they could not receive at all, which at the time the rule was written/changed was or had been the case for many phones. The capabilities available in “Airplane mode” have evolved over the yrs.

so using the phone to do pretty much anything other than as a timer is not in the spirit.
 
I think it's possible to interpret that either way. Regardless, I agree on how practical that setup would be.

BUT... computers are better than people at this. It's just a matter of implementing the systems. Current technology allows for a wind meter to tell us when to pull the trigger a red or green light would do it. I don't think an anemometer and smart phone are going to be helpful with that, but it could be done. The only limitation is the data that you feed the computer. I don't believe there is any accessible technology that can measure down range wind from behind the firing line, but that's going to change. For example, a camera pointed down range that could see trees, flags, etc combined with AI could probably make better wind calls than people given enough training data. That day is coming - I'd be surprised if someone isn't working on it right now. So we might as well decide explicitly how far we want to let the technology invade the sport before it happens.
Down range? Though this device is is dedicated to a specific product, one could scatter several of these at points on the range including being mounted on a pole at a peak height and location of the bullet trajectory. Using the data from these devices it would be possible to develop a firing solution that took into account the statistical weight of each location in said solution. I don't see that this would be against current rules. Nothing about weather stations that I've seen. Especialy since the NRA is currently focused on bad men with side rollers...

 
Down range? Though this device is is dedicated to a specific product, one could scatter several of these at points on the range including being mounted on a pole at a peak height and location of the bullet trajectory. Using the data from these devices it would be possible to develop a firing solution that took into account the statistical weight of each location in said solution. I don't see that this would be against current rules. Nothing about weather stations that I've seen. Especialy since the NRA is currently focused on bad men with side rollers...

You’re not allowed to have a wind flag forward of the firing line. Regardless, you’re well into “against the spirit” territory for a lot of guys once you go down this path.
 
I’ll make a few comments on electronic wind meters but to be fully transparent, I build the the Wind Zero. I personally don’t think think they should be used during a match. Before and after behind the line is ok as is a kestrel or throwing grass in the air.
Using a single meter behind the line during a match can give you real time crosswind values and holds but it’s value is very range and condition dependent. For example a tailwind at Ben Avery would give very good input since it’s wide open and relatively slow changing. A tailwind at Bayou Rifles would be almost useless since it’s a covered firing line in the trees. Headwinds give good decent speed and direction ranges but it’s a trailing indicator.
Now if you put three down range it’s a different matter altogether but that is illegal in any case.
 
I’ll make a few comments on electronic wind meters but to be fully transparent, I build the the Wind Zero. I personally don’t think think they should be used during a match. Before and after behind the line is ok as is a kestrel or throwing grass in the air.
Using a single meter behind the line during a match can give you real time crosswind values and holds but it’s value is very range and condition dependent. For example a tailwind at Ben Avery would give very good input since it’s wide open and relatively slow changing. A tailwind at Bayou Rifles would be almost useless since it’s a covered firing line in the trees. Headwinds give good decent speed and direction ranges but it’s a trailing indicator.
Now if you put three down range it’s a different matter altogether but that is illegal in any case.
Bingo! Now that's what I'm talking about. That looks like a very nice product. Yeah, it may be illegal to use in a F Class match today but who knows down the road and what about other forms of competition. And what about as a training tool. If you have ballistic data stored and were able to weight the readings at various sensor locations for factoring into calculation of a firing solution, it would be interesting to see how that aligned with you seat of the pants eyeballs only firing solution. It could be an excellent electronic wind coach. Do the rules require coaches in team matches to be human? It's not a flag, it's a weather station.

Looks like you have already addressed the training/coaching angle. Well done!
 
I’ll make a few comments on electronic wind meters but to be fully transparent, I build the the Wind Zero. I personally don’t think think they should be used during a match. Before and after behind the line is ok as is a kestrel or throwing grass in the air.
Using a single meter behind the line during a match can give you real time crosswind values and holds but it’s value is very range and condition dependent. For example a tailwind at Ben Avery would give very good input since it’s wide open and relatively slow changing. A tailwind at Bayou Rifles would be almost useless since it’s a covered firing line in the trees. Headwinds give good decent speed and direction ranges but it’s a trailing indicator.
Now if you put three down range it’s a different matter altogether but that is illegal in any case.
Voting for 4 down range for practice. Fully agree it’s dependent on the range and not to be used during a match.
 
according to this new rule it would appear so which is bs. How is one to grow a sport when they change the rules before you can even get the equipment delivered? It would appear the previous rules were pretty much open as long as the rest didn't return rifle to it's previous position. Now they are REQUIRING sand bags? Does this mean you can't even use a bipod in F Open now? You can't roll up your jacket?
Sorry Bill, I understand where you are coming from and agree with it to some extent but i call buffalo chips on the “grow the sport” comment with respect to the rules and equipment. The whole discipline started out with rules to specifically allow aging shooters no longer physically able to shoot the hard way with a sling and irons to continue to enjoy target shooting by putting basically a harris type bipod and maybe a scope on a Palma/fullbore rifle. There was no open or TR.

Then people immediately started to game the “rules” to make it easier/gain an advantage faster than (even before) the rules could be written - let alone updated. Anyone else been around ling enough to remember when th 6.5x.284 was called “the fagmag” that allwoednyou to ignore the wind inside of 1k yards” LOL!

And there is the basic problem….. a line has been drawn in the sand and people will bitch about it and kick loose sand over it to make it harder to see instes of just getting legal and shooting. It’s what some folks do rather than embrace the suck and compete within the letter and spirit of the rules.

//nomex undies in place//
 
Sorry Bill, I understand where you are coming from and agree with it to some extent but i call buffalo chips on the “grow the sport” comment with respect to the rules and equipment. The whole discipline started out with rules to specifically allow aging shooters no longer physically able to shoot the hard way with a sling and irons to continue to enjoy target shooting by putting basically a harris type bipod and maybe a scope on a Palma/fullbore rifle. There was no open or TR.

Then people immediately started to game the “rules” to make it easier/gain an advantage faster than (even before) the rules could be written - let alone updated. Anyone else been around ling enough to remember when th 6.5x.284 was called “the fagmag” that allwoednyou to ignore the wind inside of 1k yards” LOL!

And there is the basic problem….. a line has been drawn in the sand and people will bitch about it and kick loose sand over it to make it harder to see instes of just getting legal and shooting. It’s what some folks do rather than embrace the suck and compete within the letter and spirit of the rules.

//nomex undies in place//
I never said grow the sport but it's certainly not a bad thing and I think you completely missed the point there. If that line had been drawn to begin with it would be different but to outlaw equipment that is being commonly used across the board and AFTER everyone including those new shooters have saved to get it is just wrong. Besides whats with lines in the sand with an "open" category? When you name a class "open" then stick to it. In any sports I've competed in with open classes, there was a weight limit and engine size but everything else was OPEN.
 
I never said grow the sport but it's certainly not a bad thing and I think you completely missed the point there. If that line had been drawn to begin with it would be different but to outlaw equipment that is being commonly used across the board and AFTER everyone including those new shooters have saved to get it is just wrong. Besides whats with lines in the sand with an "open" category? When you name a class "open" then stick to it. In any sports I've competed in with open classes, there was a weight limit and engine size but everything else was OPEN.
Sorry Bill... guess I grabbed the wrong quote...I get a little salty about all the thrashing about over rules that disallow someone's favorite (expensive) piece equipment as it IS within the purview of those in charge of making the rules to, well, make/change rules as they see fit.

I've been shooting and running F-class matches going back to when we first heard about "Farquartsen" matches where guys used sand bags or Harris bipod up front and GI socks with plastic beads as a rear squeeze bag. Yes, the NRA swung and missed by not addressing things in the beginning but it was all they could do to get the whole thing off the ground. You had the same thing.... people lobbying to have whatever high speed low drag widget deemed legal. Or to adopt the rules the way THEY thought they should be. (~ahem.... TR=tactical rifle.... cough cough)

If it would've been up to me, open would be open - run what u brung.... and they would be shooting 1/4 moa target by now. TR would require .223/.308, a bean bag sock in back and a rigid harris/atlas style bipod w/cant swivel allowed but no other adjustments made one you fire you first record shot. Forget ski feet and joy sticks. I would go further and have the option of a TR course of fire that was half irons and half optic.....

Good thing I'm not making the rule, eh!
 
Are tuners allowed for XTC and sling prone shooting? I only see them prohibited for the AR Tactical class, but no mention anywhere else. So legal by omission of prohibition?
 
Are tuners allowed for XTC and sling prone shooting? I only see them prohibited for the AR Tactical class, but no mention anywhere else. So legal by omission of prohibition?
I'd say definitely no for service rifle. For any rifle I'm not sure anyone would care, but it may be a bit difficult if you need to shoot for irons. Honestly though, I don't see the point when you're shooting at the big targets. It also adds weight to the rifle where you don't want it.
 
I never said grow the sport but it's certainly not a bad thing and I think you completely missed the point there. If that line had been drawn to begin with it would be different but to outlaw equipment that is being commonly used across the board and AFTER everyone including those new shooters have saved to get it is just wrong. Besides whats with lines in the sand with an "open" category? When you name a class "open" then stick to it. In any sports I've competed in with open classes, there was a weight limit and engine size but everything else was OPEN.
Open is 100% for Caliber, FTR I guess for you should be called, Restricted.
 
I'd say definitely no for service rifle. For any rifle I'm not sure anyone would care, but it may be a bit difficult if you need to shoot for irons. Honestly though, I don't see the point when you're shooting at the big targets. It also adds weight to the rifle where you don't want it.
I don't subscribe to the "It's a big target so why bother" mentality. I shoot for Xs, so at 600 that is the 10 ring for Fclass, so if Fclass finds a tuner useful, why wouldn't a sling shooter?
 
I don't subscribe to the "It's a big target so why bother" mentality. I shoot for Xs, so at 600 that is the 10 ring for Fclass, so if Fclass finds a tuner useful, why wouldn't a sling shooter?
I'm not good enough a shot that way but I'm always impressed by you guys that can shoot that way as well as you do. Bottom line is if you can shoot well enough to see tune, then I'd run a tuner vs other tuning methods...powder/seating depth, etc.
 

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