Gene Beggs deserves a lot of credit for his work with early tuners in Benchrest competition, that he doesn't get enough of. Jackie Schmidt deserves a lot of credit in getting NBRSA to allow their use at all. Gene is a retired pilot and really sharp guy, who did a lot of the early leg work in regard to tuners for rifles. Gene and I have spoken several times over the years and we both benefitted from the testing we did early on. Gene has a tunnel in west Texas and from what I understand at least, is state of the art. Like tuners, there's a lot more to a good tunnel for shooting that negating the wind.
His tunnel testing was instrumental at the time but Gene will tell you today, that some of what he learned early on was subjective and later changed much of what he said in terms of what was going on and the amount of tuner movement needed is not nearly as much as he first thought. I had been posting about this for some time, that we need to move in smaller and more methodical increments than what most eveyone thought in those days. Well, one day he calls me up and says something to the effect of "holy shit! I've been disregarding your posts I couldn't any more and went and tested your method in my tunnel." The rest is BR history now but we are still learning and evolving. Used properly, there is no doubt, and hasn't been for a long while, that tuners work! It's not theory. Some might still be trying to make them out to be magical voodoo or something else but it's really just physics but mixed with a lot of poor information, sometimes yielding poor results. No surprise there! So, they've always worked but there has been way more than enough bad info in regard to how they work but more importantly, how they should be used.
What has changed most is that there are more tuner makers out there now. Some have been at it longer than others and some in disciplines that some still argue their value. Yet, they still tune by powder charge before they go to matches. So TUNING works or else they'd likely just go to wal mart for their ammo, right? We are doing the same thing minus the inconsistencies in factory ammo that we can take out mostly, with good loading practices. We still can't just throw a random load at every gun, regardless of the quality of components and expect winning results..Right? Well, maybe with some blind luck, we can, but I think most of us will agree that tuning by some fashion is beneficial to accuracy and our results. I surely hope we agree on this! Well, some good shooters have learned how to work tuners but there is still some really poor info out there. I have some bright things on the horizon in regard to totally new tuner designs but unless people understand how to use them, it really won't make much difference to the ones that follow poor advice from others who either never knew, followed bad info that they simply had passed along or they just haven't done the testing that is needed to PROVE how they can be used to benefit them, just like tuning by powder charge and seating depth can. Currently, it seems that everyone is looking for a magic button that does not yet exist. Maybe soon...but not yet. How long have handloaders been doing the same thing to make every group a zero?
Some of the recent posts in this thread are simply mind blowing in how disconnected some really bright people still are in regard to making tuners work. It's mostly because no one wants to get on the same page. They'd rather follow a top shooter vs a top tuner tester. I have stayed the course in my instructions with only minor changes to the process since 2007. It's frustrating when I read things that I know from experience are just not right. But my plan is the same as it has been...stay the course until tuners are as essential to a competitive rifle as a good bbl, stock trigger and action. It's amazing how far we've come but disappointing that there are still hurdles left to cross in getting everyone on the same page. To whom it may concern....there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind and the minds of many tuner users(thousands) that they do work.
If you are a doubter, don't be. If you've had a bad experience, call me. I'll help as best I can even if it's not my tuner. The only reason anyone should doubt tuners at this stage is if they have been given bad information. They are a tool. I don't put a socket on the handle of a ratchet and expect it to work as designed and I share what I've learned freely to advance the sport. Sure, I hope you'll buy from me but I'd be freakin tickled to death if the bs info stopped, that is holding people and tuners back. I'll get as technical as possible and I've probably done more and more extensive tuner testing than anyone, possibly including Browning, who held a patent that I waited for to expire before building my own design...and I copied no one to do it, but the premise is the same for all of them. They all work similarly but with nuances with different designs. What I see is a whole lot of people who don't care why they work, but how they can be of help. I'll do my best with both but people can speculate all they want while you kick their arse because you worked it right. Or, they can do the vibration testing and actual shooting to support it, and maybe there'll be less bad info to confuse you.
Bottom line...tuners work and are pretty easy but you can't get online, read 5 different methods and expect them all to work. They can't all be right so follow your gut or at least hear the different methods and when you do, follow what makes sense. It's really not that hard at all. You just have to be methodical in how you approach them from the start.
I can't put it much plainer than that without getting banned so I hope those of you that took the time to read this will simply go ahead and try a tuner...but not if the maker can't give the support YOU need with your purchase. Some can and some can't. Follow your gut and your head. I only do tuner orders by phone because I go over the method in detail with every buyer, for interpreting a test that you shoot, yourself, with your rifle...because it matters and because when you see what I describe after the fact...it's just hard to disagree with. That takes me and my opinion out of the process and your results. What more can I do than that? Tell me and I'll do my best to do just that. ---Mike Ezell
His tunnel testing was instrumental at the time but Gene will tell you today, that some of what he learned early on was subjective and later changed much of what he said in terms of what was going on and the amount of tuner movement needed is not nearly as much as he first thought. I had been posting about this for some time, that we need to move in smaller and more methodical increments than what most eveyone thought in those days. Well, one day he calls me up and says something to the effect of "holy shit! I've been disregarding your posts I couldn't any more and went and tested your method in my tunnel." The rest is BR history now but we are still learning and evolving. Used properly, there is no doubt, and hasn't been for a long while, that tuners work! It's not theory. Some might still be trying to make them out to be magical voodoo or something else but it's really just physics but mixed with a lot of poor information, sometimes yielding poor results. No surprise there! So, they've always worked but there has been way more than enough bad info in regard to how they work but more importantly, how they should be used.
What has changed most is that there are more tuner makers out there now. Some have been at it longer than others and some in disciplines that some still argue their value. Yet, they still tune by powder charge before they go to matches. So TUNING works or else they'd likely just go to wal mart for their ammo, right? We are doing the same thing minus the inconsistencies in factory ammo that we can take out mostly, with good loading practices. We still can't just throw a random load at every gun, regardless of the quality of components and expect winning results..Right? Well, maybe with some blind luck, we can, but I think most of us will agree that tuning by some fashion is beneficial to accuracy and our results. I surely hope we agree on this! Well, some good shooters have learned how to work tuners but there is still some really poor info out there. I have some bright things on the horizon in regard to totally new tuner designs but unless people understand how to use them, it really won't make much difference to the ones that follow poor advice from others who either never knew, followed bad info that they simply had passed along or they just haven't done the testing that is needed to PROVE how they can be used to benefit them, just like tuning by powder charge and seating depth can. Currently, it seems that everyone is looking for a magic button that does not yet exist. Maybe soon...but not yet. How long have handloaders been doing the same thing to make every group a zero?
Some of the recent posts in this thread are simply mind blowing in how disconnected some really bright people still are in regard to making tuners work. It's mostly because no one wants to get on the same page. They'd rather follow a top shooter vs a top tuner tester. I have stayed the course in my instructions with only minor changes to the process since 2007. It's frustrating when I read things that I know from experience are just not right. But my plan is the same as it has been...stay the course until tuners are as essential to a competitive rifle as a good bbl, stock trigger and action. It's amazing how far we've come but disappointing that there are still hurdles left to cross in getting everyone on the same page. To whom it may concern....there is absolutely zero doubt in my mind and the minds of many tuner users(thousands) that they do work.
If you are a doubter, don't be. If you've had a bad experience, call me. I'll help as best I can even if it's not my tuner. The only reason anyone should doubt tuners at this stage is if they have been given bad information. They are a tool. I don't put a socket on the handle of a ratchet and expect it to work as designed and I share what I've learned freely to advance the sport. Sure, I hope you'll buy from me but I'd be freakin tickled to death if the bs info stopped, that is holding people and tuners back. I'll get as technical as possible and I've probably done more and more extensive tuner testing than anyone, possibly including Browning, who held a patent that I waited for to expire before building my own design...and I copied no one to do it, but the premise is the same for all of them. They all work similarly but with nuances with different designs. What I see is a whole lot of people who don't care why they work, but how they can be of help. I'll do my best with both but people can speculate all they want while you kick their arse because you worked it right. Or, they can do the vibration testing and actual shooting to support it, and maybe there'll be less bad info to confuse you.
Bottom line...tuners work and are pretty easy but you can't get online, read 5 different methods and expect them all to work. They can't all be right so follow your gut or at least hear the different methods and when you do, follow what makes sense. It's really not that hard at all. You just have to be methodical in how you approach them from the start.
I can't put it much plainer than that without getting banned so I hope those of you that took the time to read this will simply go ahead and try a tuner...but not if the maker can't give the support YOU need with your purchase. Some can and some can't. Follow your gut and your head. I only do tuner orders by phone because I go over the method in detail with every buyer, for interpreting a test that you shoot, yourself, with your rifle...because it matters and because when you see what I describe after the fact...it's just hard to disagree with. That takes me and my opinion out of the process and your results. What more can I do than that? Tell me and I'll do my best to do just that. ---Mike Ezell
