Dusty Stevens
Shiner
I bet that bipod mount is going to mess with your scope’s vision even if you dont see it in the scope
What grain bullet or gun to see bullet hits at 100 yards at 24x
- Thread starter BobbyJ
- Start date
Yes when you look at it you would think no way. But in use you don't see it. Depends on the distance you are focused on too.
I have a M4 with a Acog on it and when you look at it the A2 front sight post looks to block it. Looking through it you don't see it but there is a shadow of the post in the lower portion of the scope if you look at something 10 feet away. Nothing in line of sight though.
Same thing with over bore bi-pod its going to cast a hazy shadow on the lower part of scope, if looking at 20 feet. But even then it is not in the way of the 5 milldots on the reticle.
You have to look very hard to even see it, if you looked through the scope you would notice anything unless someone pointed it out to you. I did not notice it at 100 yards at all when target shooting.
Its going to drop some of the visible light coming in so in theory near dusk the scope might get a small percentage of less light. I shot till almost dark and had no issues so its a negligible effect.
The nice thing about that Bi-Pod is you can mount it over or under its all up the you. For now I prefer its stability and it does not block targets so its staying as is.
It has a similar effect to this leupold that has the low mount optics. The Objective is going to get a little less light vs one that is completely round but your view will be fine.
If it gets too close to the optical center of the scope then you can have issues and depending on how far its from the scopes objective it can start to act as a field stop (restricting lower field of view) or all your field if blocks 100 percent.
If you have a gun with a scope on it you can test it by putting something near the end of the barrel and see when you start to notice it. As you raise it higher you will see when it starts to dim and block things. In my case its not noticeable but can also mount scope a little higher if need.
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sw282
Silver $$ Contributor
Bob. Scope CLARITY is much more important than POWER. Just my opinion.
Years ago l got a really great scope at a steal from MidSouth. The steal price was even quite high for me at time. At friend of mine was over and we were discussing the wisdom of my purchase of this high dollar European optic. Suddenly a light came on in my grey head on how the prove my purchase. lt was night, looking out from my front porch l spied a neighbor's house. ln the window was a red blob l knew to be a clock. Bringing 3 mounted scopes to the front porch l proved to myself CLARITY is king. Setting the 3 scopes to 8X Power l could see a red blob with the lesser quality VXII. Grabbing the VXIII @8X l saw 4 smaller blobs. With that straight 8x56 Zeiss l could tell the TIME
Clarity is KING
282
Years ago l got a really great scope at a steal from MidSouth. The steal price was even quite high for me at time. At friend of mine was over and we were discussing the wisdom of my purchase of this high dollar European optic. Suddenly a light came on in my grey head on how the prove my purchase. lt was night, looking out from my front porch l spied a neighbor's house. ln the window was a red blob l knew to be a clock. Bringing 3 mounted scopes to the front porch l proved to myself CLARITY is king. Setting the 3 scopes to 8X Power l could see a red blob with the lesser quality VXII. Grabbing the VXIII @8X l saw 4 smaller blobs. With that straight 8x56 Zeiss l could tell the TIME
Clarity is KING
282
OP, what are you shooting for a target? Paper or X?I made two .223 PD AR rifles with 24" barrels and they weigh around 10.3 pounds (w scope) and are top heavy plan on adding 3 more pounds to back end to balance it out and help see shots. Neither are thread so no muzzle break.
With 53gr Vmax and up still can't quite see the hits at 100 yard targets at 24x power.
40 and 36gr I can see them.
Seems bullets weight has more to do with it than velocity. But not shot a 22-250 to verify. You guys with 22-250s can you see your hits if using 40gr bullets at 24x.
These are guns I can see hits at 24x no issues
- PCP 22 cal
- .22 rimfire (40 gr)
- .17 WSM 20 gr bullets
- .204 ruger (32 and 40gr) (light gun and no muzzle break)
-.223 this seems to be the point were I can't see hits at 24x. Has to be bullet weight cause .204 ruger is more powerful yet jumps less.
For being much heavier than the .204 ruger the .223 with 53s does jump more even weighing 3 pounds more.
Curious is around 40gr around the weight were people start having issues seeing hits at 24x?
Are you speaking of your scope's inability to resolve @24X or recoil momentarily blacking out your sight picture at firing?
Not clear to me, fyi.
I shoot PD's with a 22-250 somedays (no spotter), and I have to turn the power down to 10-12X to spot hits + misses in the scope, due to recoil (Rem 700 HV bbl + Sako 75 Varmint bbl). Usually 52g bullets in the 22-250 on a bipod.
If I understand you correctly, adding a muzzle brake will help felt recoil ( sight picture) greatly.
I also think an AR has more movement vs a bolt rifle - as the AR bolt is pushed back into battery, stripping a fresh round, to boot.
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Ha!
exactly. plus dry humor. A+
For sure nothing like nice optics. A fixed power scope in general is going to beat a variable set to the same power. Not always. Like old Japan made Elites are clearer at 10x than say a SWFA fixed 10x. A fixed Zeiss going to be tough to beat with a cheaper variable at the same power. But a midrange fixed 24x is probably going to better hitting bugs with a pellet gun at 80 yards than a more expensive fixed 6 or 8x.
I have some 4x power expensive scopes that just could not compete with a mid-range at 24x for hitting tiny targets with a pellet gun. So its a balancing act with price/power/ of course people want it all. At 24x is where many cheap ones start to break down.
Its much easier to make a long scope with superior optics vs a short one. That is why many old telescopes were so long. The objectives power could be much lower = fewer aberrations. All things being equal the longer focal length scopes will have better optics. That is one of the reasons the old Bushnell's are superior to the shorter ones. You have to put much more into makes a short optic as clean at the same power due to physics.
Zeiss and swaros usually are pretty good. You can spend a ton on optics and there is a point of diminishing returns. As long as you have the cash why not get the best?
Glad I could help.
My undergrad was physics and built some scopes for astronomy. I would not go so far to say "All" the answers though but thanks.
I took it out today with the A2 stock. I can finally see my hits at 100 and 200 yards. Extra weight did it.
Sorry missed this post. The A2 + BBs in the rear compartment + Underbore Bipod fixed it. (15.5 pounds or so)
I agree, I think the AR bolt moves the gun around more than a traditional bolt action because its a two way deal. I thought the adjustable gas block would allow me to use it as a single shot bolt but I could not get it to shut off the gas 100 percent it still moved the bolt enough to jam up.
I like how I can swap out a barrel on the AR vs a bolt though. Many venders to choose from, more plug in play.
Tommie you are spot on. Tommy Mc .
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
One should have no problem seeing hits and bullet holes with a 20x scope on a .223 rifle. A brake will keep your rifle on target to see the hit. A quality scope will allow you to see the holes. I have high quality scopes that, when set at 12x, provide ability to see holes (100 yards, for example) whereas some lesser scopes struggle to show them at twice that power.
What gun are you using that only puts holes in prairie dogs?
Your post is a little hard to understand, but I believe your referring to watching the impact on a varmint...not seeing bullet holes on a target at 100 yds...with macular degeneration I can't see if I'm shooting a good group or missing the target with 20X and 308 dia bullets....that would depend on your eyesight...a big variable.I made two .223 PD AR rifles with 24" barrels and they weigh around 10.3 pounds (w scope) and are top heavy plan on adding 3 more pounds to back end to balance it out and help see shots. Neither are thread so no muzzle break.
With 53gr Vmax and up still can't quite see the hits at 100 yard targets at 24x power.
40 and 36gr I can see them.
Seems bullets weight has more to do with it than velocity. But not shot a 22-250 to verify. You guys with 22-250s can you see your hits if using 40gr bullets at 24x.
These are guns I can see hits at 24x no issues
- PCP 22 cal
- .22 rimfire (40 gr)
- .17 WSM 20 gr bullets
- .204 ruger (32 and 40gr) (light gun and no muzzle break)
-.223 this seems to be the point were I can't see hits at 24x. Has to be bullet weight cause .204 ruger is more powerful yet jumps less.
For being much heavier than the .204 ruger the .223 with 53s does jump more even weighing 3 pounds more.
Curious is around 40gr around the weight were people start having issues seeing hits at 24x?
But if ya want to see varmints fly, the 17 Remington is good, I had two during the height of my varmint days many years ago...as you go up 40 gr Nosler BT & VMAX were pretty good in 222 or 223...above that the higher the scope power at close range is a negative, because of loss of field of view. In those days I never used a muzzle break but would have one today, especially as the scope powder increases. I used a 4.5 to 20 X on the 220 Swift but all the rest were 3-9X shooting varmints out to 500 yds. But my eyesight was good and at 9 X I could shoot the eye out or very close to it, of 29 rock chucks at 100 yds with a heavy varmint 222 bolt gun in the sitting position, in one infested farmers field, as the chuck would peek out to see if you were still there. In the end I went with a 308 27" super match 155 gr Lapua, Varget powder and Mark 4 m3 3-10X for all my Varmint shooting 1 day a grey digger squirrel at 27 yds the next at 1003 1 shot each a 308 mill dot 10 X lazer measured all shots. It was a lucky shot first hit but if you shoot one gun, one caliber, one bullet, one powder that gives low standard deviations. With good practice habits, and positive mindset You will tend to be more lucky than most. Extending the range helps with seeing bullet impact, with a 308 155 gr bullet and 10X scope you will see bullet impact at 1000 yds easy, with no muzzle break as you learn to get back on it, as bullet flight time increases to 1.4 sec and 2.4 sec for 1400 yds. Use white painted pop cans and 8 to 10 inch circles at 1000 to 1400 yds. Spend all your free time reloading and shooting...read the wind. I used the educated guess and a lazer rangefinder discarded 2 wind meters as useless and call it a 2 mil wind not MPH as I'm shooting in mils. After 10 or 15 thousand rounds down range of you favorite capable caliber and a few barrel changes, you'll get a feel for it, trained your mind as auto input shooting machine, targets or varmints...and different people do it differently. You will get lucky more often shots you can never repeat in many cases....like a white flower a 1000 yds first shot or 840 yds on a landing a logger threw out a white yogurt lid laying flat 1/4" thick dead center. A squirrel sees ya coming at 100 yds jumps off a rock and runs for it, he is safe if he can get 8 yds ..the cartridges are in your pocket the rifle is unloaded, because you just left the truck. A fast reach in the pocket grab the match round, close the bolt, throw up the rifle ,see the squirrel in the scope running for it's life, pull the 2 0z trigger...squirrel dead a foot or two from safety at 100 yds... or hit a pop can first shot at 1400 yds only a range finder...it was a lucky wind guess and a lucky shot. But they happen to those who put the time in, even if ya can't do it again...but ya have to do it twice or it's still just luck...but the constant luck has some skill involved. And it's your game, your money, your life, your standards, and now my age that determines what's good, or successful. It should be fun and challenging...but sometimes it becomes tiresome and ya jump into another shooting endeavor.
searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
My prairie dog gun, of course! Seriously - seeing the holes was referencing when shooting targets - and hits when shooting critters.
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searcher
Gold $$ Contributor
I can't imagine being able to see a hit well with a 6 lb. .223 unless is has a brake. There is a big difference of seeing parts flying up in the bottom of the scope when it is dialed up to, say, 20x, versus seeing exactly where the bullet impacted, particularly on dirt if a miss. One might think they see things just fine until the day they put that brake on. I thought putting a brake on a small caliber rifle was ridiculous for far too many years. He can also drop to a lighter bullet to get a slight - yet noticeable - reduction in recoil simply by dropping to a 40-grain bullet. You can easily tell the difference in recoil between 32, 40, 50 and larger grain bullets, especially in an unbraked rig when switching between them. My lightest .223 varmint rifle is a factory Remington 700 Varmint model which weights at least a few pounds more than 6. It was worthless shooting 50 V-Maxes until a brake was added. Before I added the brake, I didn't realize how worthless it was from a standpoint of retaining sight picture. My other rifles are A/R's that weigh at least 11 pounds, and they also wear brakes. That even goes for my .20's that shoot 32 grain bullets. They too weigh almost twice that of 6 pounds. That is why so many .22 rimfire rifles are sold with brakes (like Volquartson). Another fellow said it had to do with caliber. That is not always true. A lot of it has to do with weight of the rifle and barrel length. I'm going to put a brake on my little .17 Hornet as it knocks me off my sight picture more than my 11-lb .223's. One does get pretty spoiled once you start putting brakes on. I would have said what you said about 15 years ago.
Sorry the post was a bit confusing. I did fix the issue with a A2 Stock + 1.7 pounds of Steel BBs in compartment + Overbore bipod. Gun is around 15 pounds now. I can see the bullet holes as they form at 100 yard target at 24x.
I could with my .204s and 17 caliber wsm. Now I can with this 223.
The issue was the scope/gun would jump just enough that the view of the target would jump just enough that it was not longer centered in the scope after the shot. I used the same scope on all guns at same power so it was apples to apples comparison.
I would have to say .17 and 204 ruger are superior to my 223 in terms of that particular power. Those are bolts though my 223 is a AR and the bolt action seems to induce more movement. A little weight fixes it and if I want to go obnoxious loud a muzzle break. I think the best 223 combo would be a suppressor + weight.
Sorry about the AMD you have. Hopefully its Dry AMD and not the wet form. Sometimes its worse in only one eye with the other eye still 20/20 Va. No smoking it only accelerates it.
Not sure what "Valve out" means.
I have a adjustable Odin Block. I thought it was suppose to be able to cut it off 100 percent. I cold see the thread rod covering the hole but obviously it must not be a gas tight seal because the bolt still moved about 1/2 way back.
Then I could switch from ZERO gas to semi automatic with just a 10 second twist of the Allen wrench. Now I would have to pull the entire block and put in a block that just blocks the barrel gas hole 100 percent no quick way to revert back to semi auto mode.
I just adjusted for 3 oclock ejection and called it good.
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