Your Ideal AR Tactical Build

[DR_2297]

I can never tell if this is obvious, so no offense intended if you already know...
In 223 (AR15), an 80 isn’t typically going to be loaded at mag length.

Bullets near 80 or 90 , are certainly popular in 223 for the MR or 600 yard line, but typically loaded longer and single fed for an AR platform. There are however, bullets in the 60 to under 80 range that are meant for hunting deer or pigs and will do well at mag length.

The White Oak web site might be a useful place to explore if you want to see typical offerings in Service Rifle, Match Guns, Space Guns, and Varmint Hunting uppers all in one place, from an outfit that has a solid reputation in the AR15 platform.

You can load 82 and 80.5 Bergers mag length. But what exactly is “mag length”. I mean... these are legal for SR and I can get 2.31+ in the magwell...

 

[XTR]

If you're shooting 223/556, well that's what you pick

If you're shooting the other than 223/556 class I'd shoot a 6SLR or a 6 Creed. I'm not sure how fast you could get a 105 running out of a 20" tube but it would be about as good as it gets for the platform.

 

[XTR]

@Heman I'm going to disagree with you to some extent re: F class. You say that F class is not a shooter game, and I disagree with that.

Yes, I will agree that to compete at the top of the game you need the right kit, but you aren't seriously going to compete in SR with an out of the box $600 PSA flat top either. Nor are you going to run with the pack in Palma with a factory Savage. You can participate in any of them with what ever you have, but if you want to take it to the next level you have to invest in the gear and the time on the range.

There is a cost to play the game. I am pretty sure that if you call John Whidden (or any other reputable gunsmith) and order a full kit Palma rifle it's going to make the average shooter cringe. You can almost buy a used NF scope for what Warner sights bring. Just another example, SR may not require the same level of $$ that F class does for a top shelf rifle, but the Geissele Trigger($275), WOA or CLE upper($1000+), UBR stock($200), and March/NF/WOA scope($900-1700), the $500+ coat and the $50+ glove isn't exactly pocket change either. And the 80s that they shoot at 600 yds don't go in most magazines, its still a game. Yes, it is still cheaper than a full house F-class rig but the idea is the same, if you are going to compete to win you use the advantages afforded within the rules, and this is a class where ½ the guys who participate bitch about the price of air. It's a shooters game as long as you have pretty much the same kit that the rest of the competitors run.

These days the line at a major F-class event every shooter on the line who is going to finish in the top 25 in F-TR is running almost identical rigs. Pick an action, 30" 1:10 barrel, pick a stock, NF Comp scope, Berger 200-20x with a few Hybrids at 2650±30fps (and Scott Harris running 185s), Varget, N150, N140 and maybe a smattering of H4895, bipods are either Seb, Phoenix, or Duplin. It's not cheap to get into it but it's match racing. It's definitely a shooter game because nobody there has any equipment advantage over the other shooters, it's all about a good load and calling wind.

In F open this yr at SWN the 284Win was so common that it's become the generic F-open chamber.

F-class isn't an arms race, we all got to the finish line, the race part ended yrs ago.

I've talked to the old guys in Canada as well as some here. I know that a lot of them just wanted to shoot Palma or TR rifles on bipods, but the rules were left open to innovation, not just by the NRA but also by DCRA and ICFRA. Shooting is not a starving college kid sport, then again neither is golf, or pretty much anything else where they keep score.

 

[kzin]

I'm the OP and I'm bringing this back. Would the CMMG Endeavour 300 in 6mm ARC be a decent one? https://cmmginc.com/product/rifle-endeavor-300-mk4-6mm-arc/

The price seems right and it already has a 20 inch barrel.

It checks most of the boxes but is cmmg likely to be competitive?

It does come in 10 colors so it's got that going for it.

 

[Andy Legg]

I'm the OP and I'm bringing this back. Would the CMMG Endeavour 300 in 6mm ARC be a decent one? https://cmmginc.com/product/rifle-endeavor-300-mk4-6mm-arc/

The price seems right and it already has a 20 inch barrel.

I bet you could shim/thermal-fit the barrel and it would do great.

 

[davidjoe]

This seems like a fun class to try out at 600, though late to the game. In a brief test, I have a hand load that looks good for the conditions at 200, and being shot from an AR platform. I think a 1/5 flyer at start up will be more of an exception, than a normality. The Lapua brass shows lower primer pressure than when this load is shot from a longer barrel, bolt gun.

I also tried PPU factory match 69 loads as a baseline and while point of impact was about identical at 200, I know when that stretches to 600, the 69 grain bullets will drop and drift more.

I have a question though, what kind of harm to a good scope will an AR do? For a long time I have been disinclined to put an expensive scope on a semiauto rifle. A KIDD .22 was my first exception, and seems alright. But this gun is more jarring than a .22.

Andy, thanks for talking to me about this class at the match. This scope was inspected in 2007, and I don’t want to knock its erector tube free.

 

[LVLAaron]

Here's mine. It's cleaned some targets and won some awards. As soon as they released the AR Tac class I jumped on it to build something fun.

 

[davidjoe]

Here's mine. It's cleaned some targets and won some awards. As soon as they released the AR Tac class I jumped on it to build something fun.

Very nice targets. Your bullets are moving along, what cartridge (.308)? Do you think it’s better to shoulder the gun to try to tame bolt slam, or let it down slowly, or just not worry about it?

 

[LVLAaron]

Very nice targets. Your bullets are moving along, what cartridge (.308)? Do you think it’s better to shoulder the gun to try to tame bolt slam, or let it down slowly, or just not worry about it?

223... with lets say "single use brass" given the load. I wanted to win.

I chose to single load and just let the bolt slam closed. I did all of my load testing and shooting that way. You'll see a lot of deviation if you dont close the bolt the same way every single time (this includes mag feeding) - Take your pick, soft close or slam. I dont think it'd matter. That's just how I chose to do it. I'd get on target, hit the bolt release and fire.

 

[LVLAaron]

To answer the question about "ideal" - I dont know if I'd change much and still be able to keep it within the rules. The gun pictured is right at the max weight. Knowing what I know now, I might build it on an AR10 and go 6GT... but building a competitively accurate AR10 is a whole world of pain and frustration.

 

[LVLAaron]

I have a question though, what kind of harm to a good scope will an AR do? For a long time I have been disinclined to put an expensive scope on a semiauto rifle. A KIDD .22 was my first exception, and seems alright. But this gun is more jarring than a .22.

On a modern scope I dont think you'll have a problem.

 

[Andy Legg]

This seems like a fun class to try out at 600, though late to the game. In a brief test, I have a hand load that looks good for the conditions at 200, and being shot from an AR platform. I think a 1/5 flyer at start up will be more of an exception, than a normality. The Lapua brass shows lower primer pressure than when this load is shot from a longer barrel, bolt gun.

I also tried PPU factory match 69 loads as a baseline and while point of impact was about identical at 200, I know when that stretches to 600, the 69 grain bullets will drop and drift more.

I have a question though, what kind of harm to a good scope will an AR do? For a long time I have been disinclined to put an expensive scope on a semiauto rifle. A KIDD .22 was my first exception, and seems alright. But this gun is more jarring than a .22.

Andy, thanks for talking to me about this class at the match. This scope was inspected in 2007, and I don’t want to knock its erector tube free.

David, Dylan has been using the SWFA fixed power scopes… even at 1000 yards he uses a 10x. They are cheap and reliable. The last one I bought was less than $200 bucks on sale. He literally has shot 6k+ rounds on this scope on his AR.

I’ve been using 4-14 Primary Arms scopes with good success also.

I guess, if you have an expensive scope and have a concern, maybe I’d think about one of the SWFA 12x on Black Friday.

The 80 grain SMK has been the hot ticket for Dylan so far…. He shoots it at 600 & 1000 ( but Shotmarker will NOT pick it up at 1000). Based on our experience, the Varget is an excellent choice, but 8208xbr may be a better option (if you can find it). We finally settled out on a healthy dose of Shooters World Tactical in Lake City Brass w/ FGMM primers launched at just over 2800 fps (see below). If we are really carful reloading single fidget SD’s are possible but not necessary on the targets used.


Your set up looks good to go to me….it’s definitely an economical option & quite fun.

 

[davidjoe]

My velocities were too low in some Etarget test shots to make a go of the club match with the ammo I had. I was in the mid 1,400’s at 600, compared to you guys’, V’s above.

That was basically a moderate bolt gun load that I simply adopted. However the short barrel and AR gas bleed system really do rob much more velocity than I ever anticipated, and while accurate enough if not pushed by gusts, i realized after about a dozen test shots, I’d be frustrated on Sunday if I used my rounds and I ended up shooting a .284 that did great yesterday, but I’ll work up a load.

The dedicated AR scope suggestion is a good one, and your strong recommendation is in line with what others said about that scope, even back to its early days.

 

[No.343]

What are you guys using for a rear bag in this division?

 

[jrh84]

What are you guys using for a rear bag in this division?

The rules specify that it's a squeeze bag, and not the bunny-eared bags meant for consistent tracking that F-class uses. I've used a cheap-o set from Wal-Mart that I've had for 10+ years, and I think it works better than any other squeeze bag I've found. Some people will use literal sandbags or bags filled with rice. Triad tactical makes a couple of rear bags, but they're too stiff/slick in my opinion. Most of the ones I've seen are far too stiff/full to really work as a squeeze bag.

 

[No.343]

The rules specify that it's a squeeze bag, and not the bunny-eared bags meant for consistent tracking that F-class uses. I've used a cheap-o set from Wal-Mart that I've had for 10+ years, and I think it works better than any other squeeze bag I've found. Some people will use literal sandbags or bags filled with rice. Triad tactical makes a couple of rear bags, but they're too stiff/slick in my opinion. Most of the ones I've seen are far too stiff/full to really work as a squeeze bag.

Thanks. I will look in a couple of local stores. I need to find something. My rice bag isn't working too well with my UBR stock from my service rifle.