Help needed picking a caliber for AR long range fun

[spaniel]

Well the 600yd requirement changes things a bit, but if you want to keep all the parts standard look at the 20 Practical and 6X45, necking down and up respectively. I absolutely love my 20 Practical (bolt gun) and have a 6X45 barrel on the way (also bolt gun).

 

[kzin]

If you're referring to the part about inherent accuracy, look to scores fired in NRA and CMP Service Rifle Competitions for what the 223REM cartridge is capable of.

(If I had two young daughters [I have two jobs now, though both are part-time], for a hobby I'd certainly put economy as my first consideration!)

Sure 223 is no slouch but how is it relative to the other options, many of which are wildcats created specifically for match shooting?
Better than 6.5G ? maybe
Better than fatrat ? less likely
224 Valkyrie ? probably nobody can say yet

If economy was priority one I'd stick with about any other sport I've ever done, except motorcycle racing

 

[Cakes]

I've been using a 6 AR-T40 and a 6 Hagar both using mag fed 87 v-max's for a long time. Both are absolutely devastating when it comes to prairie dogs. The 20 Practical with 39 or 40's is a lot of fun also and ignores the wind out to 250 but struggles in the 400-500 area when compared to the 6's. 6mm platforms are hard to beat IMO. Good Luck!
Eric in DL

 

[bored184]

If this was my first foray in into precision shooting or firearms in general then I would definitely go with the 223. Like many of you said ammo is easy to find, reloading is cheap and easy and when done right its inherently accurate. I personally give out the same advice when talking to new shooters who want to buy their first firearm and are not happy settling with a nice 22lr. This may be my first AR build but this is definitely not my first go around with precision rifles. I've got experience in reloading and shooting 308 win, .223, 243win, 7 mmBR and 7TCU in actual competition or just competing with myself for the absolute smallest group I can achieve.

I have been able to save and sell for this build so I will be able to achieve my dream build. Below is my thought process on a few of the above mentioned calibers.

223/ 5.56 - I am ruling this out because I want to expand my knowledge of reloading techniques and I already have a couple nice bolt guns in 223.

224 Valkyrie - It has promise. Come January it will have ammo out for it, reloading components should not be all that expensive and the numbers for it do look impressive. The problem though is that it's a new round with no real world testing AND I still don't know if I want to stick with a 22 bullet.

6.5 Grendel - Is currently sitting in the number one spot. I can buy ammo for it for those time I failed to reload and reloading for it is not to difficult. Its accuracy appears to be superb from reading others posts.

6mm FatRat and 6mm AR Turbo 40- Both are very tempting. They would definitely push my knowledge of reloading and I do like the fact its a true wild cat cartridge.

Why does this have to be so hard!!!...haha

 

[spclark]

Why does this have to be so hard!!!...haha

HA indeed!

It doesn’t have to be, given the extra info you added in that last post.

Having gone a similar route a decade ago I’d opt for a 6mm on the PPC-size case head/bolt dia. for an AR-15 variant. 6.5’s are just too much bullet for the case capacity unless you want to limit yourself to under 600 yards and bullets no heavier than 120 grains.

I tried 6.5 Grendel in two match uppers (24” barrels) and a 30” bolt-gun pipe too, all out to 1,000 yards. Abandoned the cartridge shortly afterwards.

 

[kzin]

Is it true that there is NO factory 6mm AR cartridge?

Is any of the wildcats clearly the most numerous?

In the valkyrie hype there is some mention of a 6mm Valkyrie
Maybe federal will fill that hole.

 

[mac86951]

If you're referring to the part about inherent accuracy, look to scores fired in NRA and CMP Service Rifle Competitions for what the 223REM cartridge is capable of.

(If I had two young daughters [I have two jobs now, though both are part-time], for a hobby I'd certainly put economy as my first consideration!)

I'd also say +1 on economy; yes you can get FGMM ammo and do ok; one can handload better; and lower cost too. But given your constraint for ease of loading and factory ammo; a 223 would be a good one to learn with. 600y is lots of "fun" with a 77; and I taught the RO lots of new words typically spelled with symbols $#@&.

6.5 Grendel is fun, but ammo/component costs are a bit more. I saved some costs by collecting 7.62 x 39 brass and forming; but we're back to that reloading time discussion.

White Oak Armament does a decent barrel too.

Personally; I've gone round and round and a 6mmAR is in my future.

-Mac

 

[bored184]

HA indeed!

It doesn’t have to be, given the extra info you added in that last post.

Having gone a similar route a decade ago I’d opt for a 6mm on the PPC-size case head/bolt dia. for an AR-15 variant. 6.5’s are just too much bullet for the case capacity unless you want to limit yourself to under 600 yards and bullets no heavier than 120 grains.

This is where I get lost. Does the 6mm FatRat or the Turbo use a PPC case head/bolt dia? Its probably odd but this is one reason I don't want to stick with the 223. I almost get more enjoyment learning and researching about this then I do shooting the final product.


Believe it or not my wife is wanting me to stop working so much and start getting back into shooting. We are fortunate enough that I am not working because we need the money. I say three jobs because we live on the family farm and that keeps me fairly busy just keeping the grounds and house up. We rent the farm ground out so luckily I do not have to worry about that aspect of it. The house is well over 100 years I am constantly have to fix something. My second job started out a fun part time gig during the summer working a 16 hour shift as a security guard every Saturday. I teach high school chemistry, my third and "official" job, so I am lucky enough to have the summers off.

 

[spclark]

This is where I get lost. Does the 6mm FatRat or the Turbo use a PPC case head/bolt dia?

Yes, these are all PPC-family, 7.62x39 too though that's usually large primered. All but the latter use 6.5 Grendel as parent brass.

Its probably odd but this is one reason I don't want to stick with the 223.

No, hardly odd. Why - after joining this forum - would you think that?

I almost get more enjoyment learning and researching about this then I do shooting the final product.

Then you should really consider too smaller base diameter wildcats built round the 25/30REM/6.8SPC case family. They have their place too in the AR realm: 6HAGAR, 6WOA, 240 Thunderbolt....

We (6HAGAR shooter) struggled for a few years at the beginning as brass had to be made from 25REM (Jamison's, made in SD, not readily available) or 30REM (Remington's) but a dedicated consortium convinced Hornady to produce factory brass beginning around 2013, making the cartridge accessible to a much wider marketplace.

They all have their adherents.

Believe it or not my wife is wanting me to stop working so much and start getting back into shooting. We are fortunate enough that I am not working because we need the money. I say three jobs because we live on the family farm and that keeps me fairly busy just keeping the grounds and house up. We rent the farm ground out so luckily I do not have to worry about that aspect of it. The house is well over 100 years I am constantly have to fix something. My second job started out a fun part time gig during the summer working a 16 hour shift as a security guard every Saturday. I teach high school chemistry, my third and "official" job, so I am lucky enough to have the summers off.

You're a luck man.

 

[bored184]

Thanks for all your input. I am going to move some of this conversation and my questions to the 6mm wildcat forum since I have decided to with 6mm.

 

[M.Stilley]

Shot the Grendel for several years in PRS type competitions and also out to 1100 yards for fun using 123grn bullets. It was good. I wouldn’t do the same thing again, though. There’s not enough meat on an AR bolt face to stand up to the PPC sized cartridges. If you start to push the boundaries, the bolt lugs WILL break. Bolt thrust is why the SAAMI pressure for Grendel is lower than usual.

If I were doing it again, I would go with a 6mm based on 6.8spc case like the Hagar or Tomahawk.