Annealed some brass, suffered a lot of collapsed necks during resizing

[tominboise]

I believe I over annealed some brass. Background, cases are R-P 25-06. I annealed using a propane torch and a cordless drill motor. I heated the first until slightly red and timed it, then heated the rest. It was about 9 seconds. Anyway, when I went to neck size them, using a lee collet die, about 1/2 the cases had the neck collapse like an accordian.

Did I anneal too long? I know I should get some tempilaq, to get rid of the uncertainty around heating to "slightly red", but I haven't got there yet.

 

[WSnyder]

Too long if they ended up that soft. Did you anneal in a darkened room or a normally or brightly lit room? If you went to red in a normal or brightly lighted room that’s likely your problem.

 

[46and2]

I believe I over annealed some brass. Background, cases are R-P 25-06. I annealed using a propane torch and a cordless drill motor. I heated the first until slightly red and timed it, then heated the rest. It was about 9 seconds. Anyway, when I went to neck size them, using a lee collet die, about 1/2 the cases had the neck collapse like an accordian.

Did I anneal too long? I know I should get some tempilaq, to get rid of the uncertainty around heating to "slightly red", but I haven't got there yet.

Try spinning a bronze bore brush inside the necks. Annealing leaves a sticky tarnish.
Lube the inside of the necks too.
5 to 6 seconds in the flame is usually good.

Good luck.

 

[tominboise]

It was a darkened room, but it still may have been too light to see the color change.

 

[rwj]

What was the amount of reduction in neck diameter during sizing?

 

[Nick Caprinolo]

Measure the brass length. I have had brass grow a bit after annealing. Also my brass got thicker and I had to turn the necks down to fit my 6PPC chamber. Never had it happen before and it has not happened since.

 

[jepp2]

Anyway, when I went to neck size them, using a lee collet die, about 1/2 the cases had the neck collapse like an accordian.

If the LCD is collapsing your necks, you need to spread the collets. Somebody used the die without a case in the shellholder. The collets shouldn't even be touching the case neck UNTIL you start sizing.*

*that is unless you got a die with the tolerance stack was off, and screwing the cap all the way on was loading and compressing the collet. I set it in to them, and they fixed it.

 

[chromatica]

I have experienced this problem when necking down 6.5 Grendel to 6mm ARC. I found that after the very first resistance is felt, I could open the press and rotate the case about a third of a turn. Then on the next stroke the case would size properly.

 

[SmokinJoe]

Hey guys, please note that the OP is using a Lee Collet Die which should never touch the shoulder unless something is amiss as mentioned by jepp2 above. Y'all are thinking traditional sizing die but that is not the case here (no pun intended).

 

[tominboise]

If the LCD is collapsing your necks, you need to spread the collets. Somebody used the die without a case in the shellholder. The collets shouldn't even be touching the case neck UNTIL you start sizing.*

*that is unless you got a die with the tolerance stack was off, and screwing the cap all the way on was loading and compressing the collet. I set it in to them, and they fixed it.

I did run into this some. I pulled the die apart and spread the collets with a tapered punch I have. I also made sure everything was clean and polished the edges with a scotchbrite pad to make sure there were no sharp edges. But it did feel like the collet was hanging up in the die after withdrawing a case.

 

[DiffEQ]

So you're just neck Sizing, not reforming the brass?
A pic would help, please.

 

[RegionRat]

Collapsed shoulders with a Lee Collet Die is from the die collet being stuck closed when pushing the neck up into the obstruction like @jepp2 said above.

 

[rwj]

Anyway, when I went to neck size them, using a lee collet die, about 1/2 the cases had the neck collapse like an accordian.

Please clarify if the necks collapsed radially inward or if the shoulder collapsed downward into the case body.

 

[tominboise]

Please clarify if the necks collapsed radially inward or if the shoulder collapsed downward into the case body.

The shoulders collapsed downward into the case body. I will take a photo later today and post it up. I am away from my reloading bench at the moment.

 

[Big_Daddy]

I would suspect your issue is from "over annealing" and in combination with a die issue.
I have annealed 1000's of cases and have never had an issue.

I look forward to seeing some pictures.

 

[NorCalMikie]

The shoulders collapsed downward into the case body.

Brass too soft for your job at hand. Ran into that a "bunch" making wildcat brass.
Fired brass, just move to resizing without the annealing thing. Won't take long to see/feel when the brass needs to be annealed.

 

[243winxb]

https://support.leeprecision.net/en/knowledgebase

 

[243winxb]

I believe I over annealed some brass

Happens. I made scrap many years ago, annealing.

 

[rwj]

I had the same thing happen.

Please share how you resolved the problem…

 

[RegionRat]

I’m beginning to suspect there are many here who have never used a Lee Collet Die.

This design of the collet, when running properly, puts no forces on the case body that would cause a collapse of the shoulder, so I wouldn’t draw any connections to annealing or not annealing with this die.

When the die isn’t stuck closed, all it does is a radial squeeze on the neck and likely has zero to do with annealing nor would this type of die give any feedback of annealing at all.

ETA: OP, I worry when you report that this was done to more than one case in a session without the discovery of the issue. When a LCD is running properly, the case body goes nearly all the way into the die body and the collet is activated by hard contact with the shell holder.
If you get high force with a body still extending outside the die body, you should have stopped and un-stuck the die.