First one of the year!!! Be careful!!

[gunsandgunsmithing]

As I remember it being explained when I dealt in such matters the rifling keeps it from becoming classified as a short barreled shotgun.
I think that goes all the way back to when TC first started the .410 barrel for Contender pistols. Remember it had the choke to help make the .410 shot pattern better.
The fact that most of these can fire 45 Colt ammo too is pretty much a bonus.

But...a shotgun has a definition in terms of minimum bbl length, as does a rifle...18" on a shotgun and 16 on a rifle. That seems pretty clear to me. There are also overall length regulations.

Still, I've never found a federal regulation otherwise. I hope you can prove me wrong..or anyone else..and I'm open to being wrong on this. I've just never seen it in print yet.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

But...a shotgun has a definition in terms of minimum bbl length, as does a rifle...18" on a shotgun and 16 on a rifle. That seems pretty clear to me. There are also overall length regulations.

Still, I've never found a federal regulation otherwise. I hope you can prove me wrong..or anyone else..and I'm open to being wrong on this. I've just never seen it in print yet.

I think a pistol, mfrd as a pistol, is a pistol no matter if it a 45-70 or a .410. If it had a stock on it that would make it a sbs or sbr which doesnt apply here

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I think a pistol, mfrd as a pistol, is a pistol no matter if it a 45-70 or a .410. If it had a stock on it that would make it a sbs or sbr which doesnt apply here

I agree with that, Dusty. And yes, the Judge is purposely made with very shallow rifling, so one would think it is so for legal reasons.

Even if a pistol must have rifling..well, for starters, some old ones didn't and what defines rifling..i.e., how long a portion must be rifled. IOW..what if you ream it all out but say, the last .030"?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I agree with that, Dusty. And yes, the Judge is purposely made with very shallow rifling, so one would think it is so for legal reasons.

I know mine shoots 45lc very well. If it wasnt so heavy and poorly finished it would be a big hit

 

[Dusty Stevens]

Maybe we can start boring, relining, taper boring and choking judges. Make a $200 pistol cost $1000

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Maybe we can start boring, relining, taper boring and choking judges. Make a $200 pistol cost $1000

I just think they make a very practical snake gun. Are you old enough to remember the old "Snake Charmers"?

edit...probably so. I didn't realize until I just looked, that they made them until 2009. They conform to all legal shotgun laws, as a long gun. Handy little suckers, though.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I just think they make a very practical snake gun. Are you old enough to remember the old "Snake Charmers"?

edit...probably so. I didn't realize until I just looked, that they made them until 2009. They conform to all legal shotgun laws, as a long gun. Handy little suckers, though.

Yea, snake charmers. I always used my old h&r 410 single shot from my childhood. It still gets em real good

 

[shoot4fun]

But...a shotgun has a definition in terms of minimum bbl length, as does a rifle...18" on a shotgun and 16 on a rifle. That seems pretty clear to me. There are also overall length regulations.

Still, I've never found a federal regulation otherwise. I hope you can prove me wrong..or anyone else..and I'm open to being wrong on this. I've just never seen it in print yet.

Read NFA regulations Section 2. If you have a smoothbore weapon shorter than certain length it is considered a SBS which requires NFA registration and $200 tax stamp. At the least it may qualify as Any Other Weapon (AOW) and is subject to registration with NFA and tax stamp which, IIRC, is a $5 fee but just as long a waiting period.
I need not prove anything to you sir. You would need to prove everything to BATFE.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Read NFA regulations Section 2. If you have a smoothbore weapon shorter than certain length it is considered a SBS which requires NFA registration and $200 tax stamp. At the least it may qualify as Any Other Weapon (AOW) and is subject to registration with NFA and tax stamp which, IIRC, is a $5 fee but just as long a waiting period.
I need not prove anything to you sir. You would need to prove everything to BATFE.

Oh, you're not obligated to prove anything to me. Don't get so defensive. I tried to be clear that I am open to anything and that I may be wrong. Thanks for your input. I'll look it up further tomorrow. No need to call me sir..

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Here's some interesting reading and some of what I base my view on. No need to prove either way. Just food for thought on the subject. I'm not looking to argue with anyone, especially the alphabet officers.


https://www.range365.com/best-new-s...ms-from-shot-show-2019-no-tax-stamp-required/

 

[edwardware]

I don't think a smooth bore Judge or S&W Governor would be legal.

It would be an AOW, much like the Shockwave, etc pump action (not-a-)shotguns. Making an AOW without a manufacturer's FLL would be potentially very expensive

a smoothbore weapon shorter than certain length it is considered a SBS. . .

Almost. An SBS has to be a shotgun; among other things it must be designed to be shouldered.

This gem is how we ended up with AR pistols (not SBRs), 12ga Shockwave AOWs (not shotguns), and several other cool categorizes.

Much like how Congress accidentally designed the SUV via poorly conceived language in the CAFE standards, these weapons exist in the void between congressional brain cells. . . fortunately there's a lot of space in there!

 

[Tommie]

View attachment 1181480 Damn near stepped on this one yesterday. Thankfully it saw me first and rattled when I was still a couple paces away.

Here’s encounter #2. Was walking up to a gate and saw this exactly where I would have stood while opening the gate. One fewer prairie dog in the world now. Needless to say, we detoured.

 

[redrockranger]

People complain about Iowa

Do you have those rattlesnakes in your area of the state ? What kind. We have the timber type in areas where i grew up.

 

[Coonman300]

Killed this momma and 11 babies last fall. I was cleaning up some debris and they were all together. Killed the babies with a stick and shot the momma. As crazy as it sounds they don’t bother me any. Now if there had been a wasp nest in there it’s an entirely different story. In my opinion, a napalm air strike is not overkill for a wasp nest! Hate those SOB’s!!!

 

[rayporter]

i usually get a couple a year. so far the dog has found one.

the fang marks were about 1 1/2 inches apart and looked like a bullet hole to me. vet said it was a big one and if she got the full dose she would not make it. so far i think she will make it.

 

[shoot4fun]

View attachment 1181684
Here’s encounter #2. Was walking up to a gate and saw this exactly where I would have stood while opening the gate. One fewer prairie dog in the world now. Needless to say, we detoured.

Something about fence gaps, especially the ones with cattle guards, that make those rattlers want to gather there.
Fastest I ever saw my son move was at a fence gap in TX. Kinda just levitated back into the truck and mumbled one word. "Snake!"

 

[MGYSGT]

Funny thing....I was looking at a couple different Judges about an hour ago. One was like yours and the other had a longer barrel. I might get the longer barrel. I’m on the fence. I bought snake shot for my 38 and left.

Too heavy.

 

[bluealtered]

Years ago after a really bad day of breaking an axle on my wood truck and then while walking out i managed to get chased by two young bulls who found me more interesting than sparing with each other, (i found out you can climb a 8' tall juniper) and then walking the two remaining miles out to highway 26 outside of Unity Oregon, I almost turned left and walked into Unity and the watering hole for at least one cold beer. However it was a 90 degree afternoon and i was about 80 miles from home so i walked across 26 and started to climb the fence into the field where the rancher was wind rowing his hay, to use his phone. He wasn't far from me and had been watching me as i came to the highway. He started waving his arms at me to stay where i was and i did.

After a few minutes he was up to me and the fence and told me to get on the tractor with him which i did, we worked our way over to the ranch house and a phone, (cell phones were still a ways off in the future) on the way he told me that he had been wind rowing rattlers all morning long and if i had walked over to the house i would probably have been bitten a few times before i got there. When we got to the house there were a few rattlers on the porch in the shade and he kicked them out of the way which was impressive to me but just something he did every summer day i guess. I made my call for my ride home and we got back on the tractor and went back to where he picked me and he let me off to wait for my ride and he simply went back to wind rowing more snakes, No big deal for him. I have never looked at a wind row the same way since then.

 

[STOMP442]

Found this guy while out on a hike with the wife New Years day this year. There is no off season for snakes in AZ. If your out in the hills keep your eyes peeled. I am not sure how the wife didn't get struck with this one, she stepped within inches of it before jumping through her skin when it rattled.

 

[rayporter]

there has been a few references to levitation here and i can attest that it is possible.

some years ago while shooting p dogs we stopped at the old original ranch house-well shack- built about the turn of the century. it sat very high and wind had blown the dirt from under it so you see through. step son Adam got on the porch and looked in cause there was always something living in it- owls or buzzards and whatever.

any way Adam comes levitating out about 30ft to where i was standing and stopped pointing back and no sound. i finally heard him whisper "snake"

so there was one that was in the bath tub and hung over each end about a foot. another lay the length of the bed under the bed. one shorty was in the kitchen -3 footer. another we could see about 4 feet of sticking our behind the stove but the rest of him was hidden. these four were counted from a healthy distance but there could have been more.