6GT project/range report

[Dave Marshall]

Dave,

First report of this type of thing I have seen reporting with Alpha.

Curious, what did they say when you contacted them about the issue? Was the root cause ever discovered?

If the GT is a performer, I think other brass makers will jump on board. That being said, I am here to report what I find about the GT. When I get my hands on some production GT brass, I'll report on the performance of the brass as well.

I’ve had several in depth conversations with Alpha about this issue. They have yet to acknowledge any possibility that it might be the brass. Alpha have insisted the rifle is the problem, but have not inspected the rifle or any of its parts. However, they were very eager to have all of the brass returned to them for a refund. I know personally of one other user who received a refund and have heard that there are more people that had issues with the 6xc brass.

I am very dissatisfied with Alpha’s handling of this issue. If I felt they had handled it well or reasonably, I wouldn’t be publicly calling them out.

The GT looks like it could be a very good chambering for PRS or even Midrange. Hopefully other brass manufacturers will make some. I personally will never fire another piece of Alpha brass in any of my rifles, and I would advise anyone considering their brass to avoid it.

 

[NorCalVu]

No worries Dave. The only thing I ask is to please keep this particular discussion about the 6GT. I personally have not used Alpha brass in any of my rigs, so I can not comment on the quality of the product. The purpose of this thread is to track and discuss the findings about the 6GT. Thanks.

 

[BOB LEE SWAGGER]

Alpha 6XC SRP brass works great for me. No issues.

 

[NorCalVu]

Lots of good info here and great write up. Everything I shoot must revolve around Lapua brass. We have seen time and time again that there is no substitute for Lapua Brass. If they make brass for the GT I will own one. If not....well we know how the story ends. I’m sure it will turn out great for GAP. Everything they do, good, bad or ugly sells because of their following.

+1 on Lapua being the platinum standard for brass.

I know the first "test batch" of alpha had too much case capacity for George's liking. From what I understand they are going to beef up the web area of the case to shrink the capacity of the next batch to match the x47 Lapua formed cases.

 

[Evan]

I think you might get more speed with lower pressure if you try a slower powder than Varget. H4895 and RL15 are moving to a faster powder which traditionally brings more pressure. I don't know how much more room you have for powder in the case, but moving to slower stuff (4451, N150, W760, H414, etc.) could get you more speed. You have to be patient with load development when doing this though; slower powders may shoot poorly until you get enough powder in the case and pressure back up again, then they will suddenly clean up and the groups will shrink. Just a thought if you're interested in playing around some. I'll add though that if Varget is giving you what you want, don't waste your barrel life trying to find something better. Better is the enemy of good.

 

[Willow]

Alpha 6XC SRP brass works great for me. No issues.

x2, it's the most uniform brass I've shot.

 

[Willow]

I think you might get more speed with lower pressure if you try a slower powder than Varget. H4895 and RL15 are moving to a faster powder which traditionally brings more pressure. I don't know how much more room you have for powder in the case, but moving to slower stuff (4451, N150, W760, H414, etc.) could get you more speed. You have to be patient with load development when doing this though; slower powders may shoot poorly until you get enough powder in the case and pressure back up again, then they will suddenly clean up and the groups will shrink. Just a thought if you're interested in playing around some. I'll add though that if Varget is giving you what you want, don't waste your barrel life trying to find something better. Better is the enemy of good.

RL15 falls between Varget and H4350 for burn rate.

 

[mikeeg02]

I would advise anyone thinking of going with this cartridge to think twice. Choosing a cartridge with Alpha Munitions as the only brass maker might leave you disappointed or worse.

I bought some of their 6xc SRP last year with disastrous results. Not one single piece of Alpha brass that I fired performed as new brass should. All of the cases were very difficult to extract after being fired with a very mild load. Two pieces actually ruptured at the base blasting my face with bits of metal and destroying two bottom metal assemblies. When I switched back to Norma and Petersen brass in the same rifle, barrel, load, and chamber, all of the issues that the Alpha brass displayed disappeared.

In the end I was left with twice the cost of the original brass order in repair costs, and a new respect for safety glasses.

We have very, very different opinions of what a "mild load" means. Your picture shows all there is to need to know. Look how far that brass was extruded into the ejector. Without any other details, and only that picture of your brass to go off of, I would say you didnt do your due diligence when starting with the new brass.



From what I've measured of their brass, its thicker than most which would result in a smaller combustion chamber (less water capacity) meaning you put the same old load into it, it's going to be hot. Your picture looks quite evident of that. Much like putting the same dasher load from lapua cases into normal cases and your primer pockets will be toast in one or two firings.

Im sorry if that offends you, but with the limited details you've provided that's what it looks like. I've also spoke with the people from alpha and they are shooters just like us.

 

[Dave Marshall]

We have very, very different opinions of what a "mild load" means. Your picture shows all there is to need to know. Look how far that brass was extruded into the ejector. Without any other details, and only that picture of your brass to go off of, I would say you didnt do your due diligence when starting with the new brass.

View attachment 1107521

From what I've measured of their brass, its thicker than most which would result in a smaller combustion chamber (less water capacity) meaning you put the same old load into it, it's going to be hot. Your picture looks quite evident of that. Much like putting the same dasher load from lapua cases into normal cases and your primer pockets will be toast in one or two firings.

Im sorry if that offends you, but with the limited details you've provided that's what it looks like. I've also spoke with the people from alpha and they are shooters just like us.

38.5 grains of H4350 is a mild load in any 6xc. Velocity was 3000fps with a 107 and is hardly a brass destroying load. If it was overpressure in Alpha brass, all 150 cases I fired would have more evidence of brass flow or rupture, but they don’t. When the same load is fired in new Norma or Petersen brass in the same rifle and barrel there are zero pressure signs. None. When fired, the base of Alpha cases expands .003”. When new Petersen or Norma is fired, the base expands .001-.0015”. How would any reasonable person not conclude the brass is the issue?


I spent a lot of time and money trying to get Alpha brass to work in my rifles. I was very excited for what I hoped would be American made Lapua quality 6xc factory brass. I implemented every suggestion Alpha offered up to me to remedy the problems, and it literally blew up in my face, twice. It has cost me twice the cost of the brass to repair my rifle.

I will never fire another piece of Alpha brass in any rifle I own. I’m simply sharing my experience with Alpha brass and folks can make their own decision whether they want to use it or not.

 

[mikeeg02]

Now you've offered more details. So out of 150 pieces, how many looked like that? You posted a picture and wrote a message basically saying if you use alpha brass this is going to happen.

Certainly after the first one that looked like that, I'd be pulling bullets and start asking questions on why that happened.

So here, you say you base your opinions on just the photo I posted, yet you’ve also stated elsewhere that you know more about my issue than I’m aware of. Which is it? I know you are are at least sponsored by Alpha if not directly on their payroll so I expect nothing less than complete allegiance.

I don't work for alpha, but I have some of their brass. And I talked to them before I bought my brass, when I did talk with them, you could tell they were at the range. I have not talked with them about your problem.

I can see why they want the brass back. If there is an issue, they want to fix it. Much like the issues Peterson had early on with a couple lots.

 

[Dave Marshall]

Now you've offered more details. So out of 150 pieces, how many looked like that? You posted a picture and wrote a message basically saying if you use alpha brass this is going to happen.

Certainly after the first one that looked like that, I'd be pulling bullets and start asking questions on why that happened.



I don't work for alpha, but I have some of their brass. And I talked to them before I bought my brass, when I did talk with them, you could tell they were at the range. I have not talked with them about your problem.

I can see why they want the brass back. If there is an issue, they want to fix it. Much like the issues Peterson had early on with a couple lots.

Only the two cases that ruptured had brass flow like that. The other cases showed no more signs than some slight ejector swipe and very hard extraction.

I may have you mistaken with someone else who’s name is simailar to your username. My mistake. I will edit the post.

Peterson handled their issue very differently than Alpha is handling theirs. If Alpha had handled it the way Petersen did, I wouldn’t be writing these posts.

 

[mikeeg02]

Only the two cases that ruptured had brass flow like that. The other cases showed no more signs than some slight ejector swipe and very hard extraction.

I may have you mistaken with someone else who’s name is simailar to your username. My mistake. I will edit the post.

Peterson handled their issue very differently than Alpha is handling theirs. If Alpha had handled it the way Petersen did, I wouldn’t be writing these posts.

No problem, theres a lot of people out there!

I guess my concern is further proved by the fact the other cases saw ejector marks, and hard extraction. So it should have been a little more apparent that the load was warm for the brass.

Hard extraction and be a couple of things not always related to pressure, so I can see how it MIGHT be over looked ( and I am not trying to act like I am teaching you something here just leading to sharing a recent experience)

One of which is odd, a friend of mine had a 30-06 reamer spec'd off of his lapua brass, from a few years ago. Sold the gun, new owner bought a new lot of lapua brass was hard to chamber (even after sizing) and extracted like your case did, it pulled through the rim. This turned out to be a combination of things. The original lapua brass was significantly smaller at the 200 line, even after a few firings. So much that even a small base die wouldnt touch it.(nor did his sizing die, but it never grew there) The reamer was cut to that dimension though. The new lot of lapua brass measured ~.003" larger than the old did (IIRC) and it was enough that even small base die wouldnt size it enough at the 200 line. Remember, both sets of cases are lapua brass. His only remedy to fix his situation at this point is to run another reamer in, or get a custom sizing die. (Or shoot the old brass until it gives up the ghost and junk the 30-06 experience lol)

It is very unfortunate to see anything bad happen to anyone, and I certainly hope for great things from any american brass maker. (Hense why after a few guys measured the consistency they got, I bought ~400 .260 cases) and mine have measured out very well also. I just think its important to give a little more (all if possible) detail on an incident such as yours, before trying to link bad brass to a company. I do hope in further talks (if you give them another chance) they will treat you right and work with you.

 

[mikeeg02]

Also, thank you for further clarifying the situation.

 

[Evan]

RL15 falls between Varget and H4350 for burn rate.

Not that it matters overly, because they're very close to each other and it doesn't change my suggestion at all, but on hodgdon burn charts, RL15 is listed as faster than varget.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/01/updated-hodgdon-and-imr-relative-burn-rate-chart/

 

[Willow]

Not that it matters overly, because they're very close to each other and it doesn't change my suggestion at all, but on hodgdon burn charts, RL15 is listed as faster than varget.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2016/01/updated-hodgdon-and-imr-relative-burn-rate-chart/

ADI powders who make Varget and H4350 show RL15 between the two, must be some differing charts out there I guess.

 

[Evan]

ADI powders who make Varget and H4350 show RL15 between the two, must be some differing charts out there I guess.

I think the results rely heavily on the testing methodology which is why every chart has slightly different arrangements.

 

[NorCalVu]

First range report posted above.

 

[dgray]

If lube wasn’t cleaned from case it will cause sever case damage

 

[4ringshooter]

Getting this thread back on track for now. The final production version of the alpha brass is still not out yet and hopefully capacity is similar to the formed lapua brass. The current alpha 6 gt brass we have on hand seems gtg so far though with no abnormal pressure issues.

 

[4ringshooter]

Lots of good info here and great write up. Everything I shoot must revolve around Lapua brass. We have seen time and time again that there is no substitute for Lapua Brass. If they make brass for the GT I will own one. If not....well we know how the story ends. I’m sure it will turn out great for GAP. Everything they do, good, bad or ugly sells because of their following.

I agree Lapua is the gold standard for brass but there are other companies coming out with brass that is also top tier. Going off of your screen name Lapua does not make 22 dasher brass and you are having to form it into that cartridge. Same goes for using 6.5x47 brass to make GT.