Prime ammo being forced into temporary closure by ruag/Norma.

[riflewoman]

I will never buy anymore new stuff from ruag or norma unless it is NOS from years ago. This is just another reason to be very careful going into business and keeping our business inside our country.

This seems to be short sighted. The details are not fully out yet, but my guess is that Prime has the lions share of the blame for their own situation. You have to pay your suppliers even if the market proved softer than you realized. When there appears to be “resistance” to the price you ask your only real option is to adjust your prices to what the market will bear.

RUAG/Norma has only the withholding of product as leverage to get Prime to pay up. Prime appears to be unable or unwilling to meet their obligations. They should adjust their business model to suit reality. RUAG have enough market share and don’t need to force others out of the market to get more. But they do deserve to be paid for the product supplied.

 

[people]

I can’t believe Ruag was so stupid. They provided ammo and only got paid when it was sold?! As of early 2018 they provided almost 2.5 million dollars of ammo to Prime for which they were paid not one dime.

This is very popular in the manufacturing community. As is getting paid months after a service or product is provided. Most companies love net90 or net180. Basically your company will be paid for your product 90 or 180 days after you invoice the customer. Basically you ship the product and send a bill. Hopefully on the same day. Then when they get it and enter the invoice into the books (up to a couple weeks later) your count down starts. Then after the count down hits zero they will then start the process to cut you a check or do a EFT. Checks usually take a week to process and mail out. Cities always pay so far in my experience. Companies well... You have to know how much you can loose and be ok with that. Some companies are best to be avoided at all costs.

It is amazing how a company will get sold and the new company thinks they do not owe the old debt. Also if they go under you will be lucky to get pennies on the dollar what is owed.

I have to pay for my stuff upfront so I do not play that net?? with anyone but cities. If your company has to have it. I will try the invoice you first and see if you will pay it. If they do I ship the product. If not who cares? It is not like it will not sell next week.

 

[JimT]

This is very popular in the manufacturing community. As is getting paid months after a service or product is provided. Most companies love net90 or net180. Basically your company will be paid for your product 90 or 180 days after you invoice the customer. Basically you ship the product and send a bill. Hopefully on the same day. Then when they get it and enter the invoice into the books (up to a couple weeks later) your count down starts. Then after the count down hits zero they will then start the process to cut you a check or do a EFT. Checks usually take a week to process and mail out. Cities always pay so far in my experience. Companies well... You have to know how much you can loose and be ok with that. Some companies are best to be avoided at all costs.

It is amazing how a company will get sold and the new company thinks they do not owe the old debt. Also if they go under you will be lucky to get pennies on the dollar what is owed.

I have to pay for my stuff upfront so I do not play that net?? with anyone but cities. If your company has to have it. I will try the invoice you first and see if you will pay it. If they do I ship the product. If not who cares? It is not like it will not sell next week.

What you describe is very different than the arrangement Prime had with Ruag.

Having worked in family liquor stores in my youth, as well as passing the CPA exam, I am well aware of “net terms.” Any company offering net-90 or net-180 won’t be in business very long.

 

[Papa Charlie]

What you describe is very different than the arrangement Prime had with Ruag.

Having worked in family liquor stores in my youth, as well as passing the CPA exam, I am well aware of “net terms.” Any company offering net-90 or net-180 won’t be in business very long.

I would not say any company that offers 90 or 180 day term will be out of business. There are many companies today that work on Net 60 to 120 terms. More difficult for smaller companies, but very common for larger companies as the work to compete in the current climate.
When small and large companies work together, many small companies in order to do business are forced into terms beyond their capabilities.
There are way too many unanswered questions here for anyone to claim who is the bad guy and who is the good. There may only be small business over extending themselves to try and grow without the resources to play.

 

[JSH]

Don’t pay your light bill and see how long it takes to turn your power off.

 

[JimT]

I would not say any company that offers 90 or 180 day term will be out of business. There are many companies today that work on Net 60 to 120 terms. More difficult for smaller companies, but very common for larger companies as the work to compete in the current climate.
When small and large companies work together, many small companies in order to do business are forced into terms beyond their capabilities.
There are way too many unanswered questions here for anyone to claim who is the bad guy and who is the good. There may only be small business over extending themselves to try and grow without the resources to play.

Read ALL of the exhibits at the link below and then read Prime’s reply and counterclaim. Seems like many of Prime’s statements and claims, given the clear reading of the contracts and notices, are bogus.

https://www.primeammo.com/uploads/1...d-RUAG-Ammotec-Complaint-RUAG-vs-Ctiizens.pdf

 

[Rustytigwire]

Hard bid jobs, buy material, pay labor. Deliver, wait for payment. Business is exciting.

 

[Deleted calshipbuilder]

I would not say any company that offers 90 or 180 day term will be out of business. There are many companies today that work on Net 60 to 120 terms. More difficult for smaller companies, but very common for larger companies as the work to compete in the current climate.
When small and large companies work together, many small companies in order to do business are forced into terms beyond their capabilities.
There are way too many unanswered questions here for anyone to claim who is the bad guy and who is the good. There may only be small business over extending themselves to try and grow without the resources to play.

Its pretty simple, don’t sign up for things you can’t do. Nobody is forcing a small business to sign up to crappy terms and unrealistic sales goals but the business owner’s own desire to make money.

 

[dolek]

I wonder what the truth is ? Seems everybody lies(or makes crap up),I guess it's human nature ? One thing for sure,speculation sure gets attention...perfect example right here.

 

[people]

What you describe is very different than the arrangement Prime had with Ruag.

Having worked in family liquor stores in my youth, as well as passing the CPA exam, I am well aware of “net terms.” Any company offering net-90 or net-180 won’t be in business very long.

Yup JimT just trolling it up again. Yes trolling it up. I was giving you a an example of a second way businesses operate. Most do not know this about companies. Most think when a company gets a bill the company just pays it by the due date. You know how us lowly workers pay bills.

As too the long net terms wont be in business very long. That is total BS. Once again you show how little you know. Every large company I have ever done business with likes keeping their cash for as long as they can. "I did not get rich by righting checks" Small companies do have a hard time with this. If you are going to play with the big dogs then you have to know how they play. Like I said I am a fan of the cash up front method. Sure I could sell much more product but I am making enough and growing at a rate I dictate. If my very profitable product stops selling today well the rest of the stuff I make can keep all of my employees getting paid.

 

[JimT]

Yup JimT just trolling it up again. Yes trolling it up. I was giving you a an example of a second way businesses operate. Most do not know this about companies. Most think when a company gets a bill the company just pays it by the due date. You know how us lowly workers pay bills.

As too the long net terms wont be in business very long. That is total BS. Once again you show how little you know. Every large company I have ever done business with likes keeping their cash for as long as they can. "I did not get rich by righting checks" Small companies do have a hard time with this. If you are going to play with the big dogs then you have to know how they play. Like I said I am a fan of the cash up front method. Sure I could sell much more product but I am making enough and growing at a rate I dictate. If my very profitable product stops selling today well the rest of the stuff I make can keep all of my employees getting paid.

I usually “write” a check, how do you “right” a check?

But now that we are on that subject, I will say I also did not get rich by writing checks, I got rich by receiving big checks.

 

[DHuffman]

Hard bid jobs, buy material, pay labor. Deliver, wait for payment. Business is exciting.

So true, I tell my drivers when we do a job they get paid. The guy at the fuel station gets paid, the tire guy, the parts guy and every other "guy" gets paid. I get paid for the work mostly anywhere from 60 to 120 days, sometimes much longer, occasionally never.

It's a great situation. For the drivers, the companies receiving the service and all those other "guys".

 

[dolek]

Funny how I sometimes read things from folks that I have on the ignore list,and they all show up on the same threads .

This comes to mind...

 

[Papa Charlie]

Read ALL of the exhibits at the link below and then read Prime’s reply and counterclaim. Seems like many of Prime’s statements and claims, given the clear reading of the contracts and notices, are bogus.

https://www.primeammo.com/uploads/1...d-RUAG-Ammotec-Complaint-RUAG-vs-Ctiizens.pdf

I would tend to agree with you.

One thing that is curious, Ruag agreed to sell Prime additional goods for almost $400k to help Prime settle their debt. Prime paid but never received the materials. Ruag indicated that they were continuing to produce the product for the subsequent order but did not indicate that they had shipped any of it as was stated in the agreement. Instead Ruag retained the funds paid by Prime, placing it in escrow and now petitions to keep the funds to help settle the debt.

First, interesting that Prime was able to come up with the funds for additional order, but couldn't or wouldn't pay under the initial agreement.

Second, it might be assumed that Ruag never intended to supply the materials for the subsequent order, but instead received the funds under false pretense to get the funds to cover the first agreement.

In a court of law this may not be as cut and dry as one might think.

 

[Papa Charlie]

I usually “write” a check, how do you “right” a check?

But now that we are on that subject, I will say I also did not get rich by writing checks, I got rich by receiving big checks.

It would seem that was Prime's idea as well !

 

[KMart]

From sitting on a fence post watching, it appears that Prime got into a really high stakes poker game with sharks that can virtually buy every pot....and lost.

 

[pirate ammo]

everything in my store is paid for, it might not be a lot, but it's mine..

 

[Flouncer]

everything in my store is paid for, it might not be a lot, but it's mine..

The glitter business is cut throat and ruthless. Be careful !!

 

[vonb]

Soft market = hard times

 

[BOLTED]

A slap with a glove and a good old fashioned duel.

Reading this is like watching a bad reality T.V. show.

Now all of you boys go outside and play. There are much better ways to spend your time.