My BSWN 2019 Lessons

[MattPeetz]

At this year match I saw a lot of targets going into the air with spotters clearly on the line going into the air with the lower score.... seem to me touching the line means different things to different people or perhaps regions of the country. In fact I saw a situation where the two pit pullers on a target were constantly arguing over whether it was touching the line.
How can we make this a fun match for everyone and that everyone in the pits has at least a rudimentary understanding of how to look at a hole say it touching the line or not and hang the paddle in the appropriate spot it simply should not be subject to interpretation or judgment.
I’m not saying these incidents were perpetrated by seasoned shooters or beginners but I wished they would include a brief description of making the call and include it in the match bulletin. For all you that are going to respond with why did you not say something. I did.

If its touching the line, it’s touching the line.
If you have to do a double take and ask yourself if you see any black, then give the higher score. It’s pretty simple. You can discern if its a higher score or lower score pretty quickly.

 

[MichelleGallagher]

From my experience, I would not be the better shooter I am today if the BSWN was invitation only. In 2017, I was a Marksman. I had no real mentor in ftr at my club. I went to the BSWN and was able to spend 35 educational minutes Al Barnhart about my set up and position. Later that week I had a scope that was lent to me after mine broke. At 1,000 yards, bore sighting, Ian Klemm cranking on the turret and Brian litz giving us the come up I hit the target first shot. Besides that I had so many conversations and got so many wind tips I got better instantly.

Since then I have been very fortunate to have friendships from that match. And I have learned so much. I never would have gained so much without that one match in 2017.

Without new shooters in the pipeline and learning from the best I fear there would be a lot of lost info. I don't think there is any perfect one way to look/run at a match like the BSWN. But as I understand it, it's a pro/am and it's serving it's purpose.

Another consideration is the classification. I know a few good ftr shooters from nevada, idaho, wyoming that are not as high as experts but also shoot at some nasty ranges. A higher class may not accurately assess the quality and knowledge of the shooter.

This is just another point of view. Not right or wrong I hope. Just my first hand experience.

Thank you so much for sharing! This is the biggest reason we started the SWN - to grow the sport, build relationships and encourage shooters of ALL levels. I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but I had to jump on and thank you for being a bright spot.

 

[sdean]

Thank you so much for sharing! This is the biggest reason we started the SWN - to grow the sport, build relationships and encourage shooters of ALL levels. I wasn't going to comment on this thread, but I had to jump on and thank you for being a bright spot.

Throughout this whole thread I wondered what the people in charge thought about invitational stuff. Well nuff said. Maybe this thread will die now. Thanks to all that help put this on. Makes this newbie want to go more now.

 

[D-4297]

I can fully sympathize with the OP . My first SWN last year ; I made a totally rookie loading mistake , the night before the 600 and my usual low to mid 190's became low 180's and high 170's in the blink of a eye . A complete "Newbie" mistake . But then ; Weren't we all newbies at some point ? I've never seen a birth certificate with a box checked for "High Master" , at birth . Maybe ; just maybe , we forget where we came from , to get where we are .
This years scores were much better . High 190's , but low X-count . Though not nearly close to what I saw when I checked the board . I may never reach that plateau but that won't keep me from going back to the line when it's my relay . I can ; as a "Newbie" , both to F-class , and DSS tell everyone that Matt , Nancy , Michelle and all the others who volunteer their time , energy and skills to make the SWN the absolute best major Match in the country , if not the world , deserve nothing but our praise and admiration for the job they do putting this Match together . And for those who don't know it , they're already starting to plan for next year ....Think it's easy ? Step up and volunteer to help out .
On another subject that's been touched on in this thread . Ben Avery is my home range , and I shoot the Berger range three to five times a month , which means I pull targets that many times a month also , since I don't own a E-target ....Yet . Even though I'm new to F class ( 3 yrs. ) ,I take pride in the fact that I'm expected to "pull & mark" in 10 - 12 seconds , because That's what I expect as a shooter . I've pulled for guys who had a round on the target as fast as I could put it back up , and he shot 75 rounds nearly non-stop , in 45 minutes . BTW....It was July , and 107 degrees that morning . I was soaked to the skin , but managed to keep up , and went home smiling . Not because of my shooting that day , but because I knew if I could keep up with "that Guy " , I could mark anywhere . Including the SWN .
If the "Newbies" aren't doing it in the pits , then maybe it's because there is no one taking the time to teach them what they're supposed to be doing , and how to do it correctly . As competitors ; it is our responsibility to teach the new people as they come in , or bite our lip and stay silent , when they don't perform to expectations . If the "student" failed to learn , the "Instructor" failed to teach .

 

[1shot]

At this year match I saw a lot of targets going into the air with spotters clearly on the line going into the air with the lower score.... seem to me touching the line means different things to different people or perhaps regions of the country. In fact I saw a situation where the two pit pullers on a target were constantly arguing over whether it was touching the line.
How can we make this a fun match for everyone and that everyone in the pits has at least a rudimentary understanding of how to look at a hole say it touching the line or not and hang the paddle in the appropriate spot it simply should not be subject to interpretation or judgment.
I’m not saying these incidents were perpetrated by seasoned shooters or beginners but I wished they would include a brief description of making the call and include it in the match bulletin. For all you that are going to respond with why did you not say something. I did.

Did you view these spotters from in the pits or on the firing line? All of us have had shots that were close, but not touching the white line, giving us the higher value. Several times the shooter I was squadded with for the day would ask the other for a 2nd opinion. The shooter deserves every point he earns, nothing more or less.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

 

[Cochran]

Did you view these spotters from in the pits or on the firing line? All of us have had shots that were close, but not touching the white line, giving us the higher value. Several times the shooter I was squadded with for the day would ask the other for a 2nd opinion. The shooter deserves every point he earns, nothing more or less.
I hope this helps,

Lloyd

True but believe it or not, there are people out there who will not score the higher value for touching the line.
Unless it’s buried in the white, they score it lower. I’ve seen it happen. And I’m not talking about newbies that don’t know any better.

 

[memilanuk]

But hey, paper targets are more accurate than e-targets, right?

Sorry, couldn't help myself

 

[1shot]

True but believe it or not, there are people out there who will not score the higher value for touching the line.
Unless it’s buried in the white, they score it lower. I’ve seen it happen. And I’m not talking about newbies that don’t know any better.

That’s B-S plain and simple.

Lloyd

 

[dougridgeore]

I was in the pits and saw the hole on the line....amazing how the call could possibly go towards the lower value. I guess there is not a universal standard for all competitors. The line call issue needs to be addressed and not something that is subjective to ones opinion

 

[Archer]

Ok where to start.

First: The SWN used to have a school on the Monday and Tuesday before the event. In fact this was the first year we did not have the clinic, because everyone wants to shoot and no one wants to help. This match was started for three reasons. One to get industry and the shooters together. Two, to have an opportunity for new shooters to shoot along side world class shooters. Three, to provide an example of how a world class match should be run so that other ranges/clubs could incorporate things done at the SWN to their own matches.

Two: It has been suggested to make the match into an invitational or require something to get into the match. I can tell you that if the match does become an invitational it will go from the "Largest Long Range Match" in the country to the smallest because there are only a handful of people that would be invited that make the matches fun. The rest have such huge egos and have forgotten that we do this for the fun of it. Lets face it this is an amateur sport that at the end of the day doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. All that really matters is the camaraderie and the friendships that come out of it.

Three: It has also been suggested that we break the Sling shooters and f class shooters apart and hold the match for sling shooters one week then the next week we hold it for the f class shooters. I can tell you that if we do any version of this it will be that we hold the match for sling shooters and that is it. They bitch less. There is not enough help to make this happen. Heck I took 10 days off of work to help run the match, and so did the rest of the people that helped run the match. The stat officer came from Washington just to help with the match. Then you have people like Karen L. and Bev B. that come with their husbands and help out with the match. This match is run by volunteers and to ask them to stay for two weeks is uncalled for.

There is nothing saying that the SWN (notice there is no "B" in it) has to be the only must attend large match in the country. To that I challenge you to help build up other matches. Like JKL said Michelle & I will gladly provide tips and insight. The problem is that you will have to sacrifice your shooting to do so, and no body is willing to do it. For example Michelle doesn't even shoot any more, and I still shoot but I wouldn't say good.

To that, rant over. I will post registration info for 2020 sometime in the future. Now onto running the Cactus Classic Benchrest Match and in October the NBRSA Group Nationals.

Well put, Matt...I particularly like paragraph 2...People have forgotten your last line of that paragraph...for all of us that this was the first time attending (after many years of trying to get in), Thank you

 

[sdean]

I was in the pits and saw the hole on the line....amazing how the call could possibly go towards the lower value. I guess there is not a universal standard for all competitors. The line call issue needs to be addressed and not something that is subjective to ones opinion

Seems like if you would have brought that up then instead of now the outcome might have been rectified.

 

[MattPeetz]

I was in the pits and saw the hole on the line....amazing how the call could possibly go towards the lower value. I guess there is not a universal standard for all competitors. The line call issue needs to be addressed and not something that is subjective to ones opinion

There is a universal standard. Touching the line is touching the line.
The only thing non standard is the persons morals and integrity

 

[Jdne5b]

There is a universal standard. Touching the line is touching the line.
The only thing non standard is the persons morals and integrity

I cant remember if it was SWN 2018 or Nationals last year.. but there was a group of shooters from another country who were all scoring the lower value if shot touching the line. It was a pain to sort out.. but I think they finally got it. How many points it cost shooters before then.. who knows. Hopefully none if the other person pulling was paying attention.

 

[MattPeetz]

I cant remember if it was SWN 2018 or Nationals last year.. but there was a group of shooters from another country who were all scoring the lower value if shot touching the line. It was a pain to sort out.. but I think they finally got it. How many points it cost shooters before then.. who knows. Hopefully none if the other person pulling was paying attention.

That is their problem for not knowing the rules. It is stated in the nra rule book.
I think the person calling the match or the pit boss should make a statement about the line before shooting starts and at each pit change. Or at least mention it in the safety briefing. We do this at out club everytime, even when there are no new shooters

 

[243Mendoza]

That is their problem for not knowing the rules. It is stated in the nra rule book.
I think the person calling the match or the pit boss should make a statement about the line before shooting starts and at each pit change. Or at least mention it in the safety briefing. We do this at out club everytime, even when there are no new shooters

In international/ISSF competition, a shot counts for higher value if its inside the line so I can see the confusion by people not familiar with US highpower competition. That is why a short lecture by the pit boss is needed for the larger matches.

 

[mgdietrich]

You do not have to touch the line to get the next higher value, the shot only needs to be tangent to the line. It appears that we need a review of the rules.......and how to score.....

 

[rardoin]

You do not have to touch the line to get the next higher value, the shot only needs to be tangent to the line. It appears that we need a review of the rules.......and how to score.....

? Please explain. I see no reference in the HP rulebook about 'tangents'. This would be the first I have heard of it.

 

[ShootDots]

You do not have to touch the line to get the next higher value, the shot only needs to be tangent to the line. It appears that we need a review of the rules.......and how to score.....

If the shot is so close to the line that you have to scrutinize the shot, if it's at a BIG event, call a pit boss. If that same shot is at a club match, for the crying out loud just give the higher score. We are not playing here for $20,000.00 per match and nobody is making a living off shooting a match!

 

[Ringostar]

The size of the bullseye is not the inside of the ring. It’s the outside! The white lines are just made thicker, protruding inward so that they can be made out by the shooter. It’s not that hard to figure out.

 

[Medic505]

Come on Gringo, we be tryin to get scientific.

Tangent......
a straight line or plane that touches a curve or curved surface at a point, but if extended does not cross it at that point.

Figger that one out!!!