My BSWN 2019 Lessons

[ngb1787]

Warren,
Here is your chance to step up!
I remember standing at the top of the ramp at the 1000 yard line in the early days of the match with Eric Stecker and Mid. There were maybe 30 targets in the air and the conversation went like this. "It sure would be great to see all 100 of the targets in the air some day on this range again, Mid responded it may happen one day."

Guess what it did and it took several years. It is one of the highlights, seeing the morning sun on that line of target frames. Now we have a match that everyone wants to shoot and it takes 16 minutes to sell 360 spots and put 150 shooters on the wait list.

Warren, you can do it to get started just like Matt, Michell, Mid, Nancy and the group of Desert Sharpshooters that helped. Now start the Warren Dean Invitational Cup. It will start small and in a few years you will have 360 shooters fighting at regional and top local matches hoping to get an invitation for the Warren Dean Cup.

I know for a fact that Matt and Michell will send you there notes on how to get started and you will be off to the races.

All joking aside, I know how everyone wants to improve something from the toilet paper to providing nicer logo pens and free massages in the pits. But by this time everyone that worked so hard to pull off the SWN, one of the best rifle matches. Then the Creedmoor Cup (the first time it was fired in the US in over 100 years) one day later are a little tired and beat up.

Now Matt is overseeing Winter Range, 800 shooters and then the Cactus Classic Benchrest Match now throw in the Washington's Birthday Match. I did hear rumor that Michell offer to help Matt with some stuff. So they still are helping run the top matches in other shooting sports at Ben Avery. Don't beat them down or we may be looking and hoping to find someone to run a match that was the best long range match that was shot at Ben Avery.

Just joking Warren!! But the name sounds like a possibility. I think we should start with a Solo Cup.

John

I really think the “JKL Whiskey Cup” would be the way to go, lol.

 

[whatwind?]

If something sells out in 20 minutes, Demand is greater than supply, so the price should increase or at least let someone pay for hires pit service or in E targets??? Or increase supply/capacity?

Should never discourage new shooters/customers

 

[Jennb]

SWN is the best match in this country bar none! Thank you to everyone who makes it possible.

Paid pullers can be a whole different can of worms for a match of that importance. I would not want to open that one!

 

[BIG D]

I hope my statement earlier was not taken as the BSWN is a poorly run match. I feel it is very well ran and I personally thanked everyone involved in running it. My statement was that it is not a place for the newbie shooters. I’m all for growing the sport but a match this level isn’t the time or place for loose ends. No offense towards the new shooter. The BSWN is like another national level event. The people that show up here are top level competitors with their best stuff. In the end I feel they are all there to shoot to the best of their abilities against others that are doing the very same thing. Thank you all who have made the BSWN another year of a very well run event with smiles on your faces.

 

[Immike]

Some of our champions that you see now showed up as greenhorns just a couple years ago. Fact! The logistics of a invitation is not worth doing unless you want the job? Probably be the most hated person on earth with that... Elitist isn’t a part of the sport that resonates well with me. Deal with the ups and downs like everyone before you did and the ones you admire for repeated wins. You have to time yourself with the pulling, that’s part of the sport.

 

[Twdmar]

The dwindling numbers in that sport is not because of the so called exclusions. Those numbers are down all across the country in that disipline. They are crossing over to f class and prs.

I would agree with that and I also think the bergers are not a place for novices. I've shot in the cmp games and it's a clown show. As shooters we cannot afford to exclude people from the sport and therein lies some of the rub.
Back to the original post, when it comes to trying out new stuff, the saying is "what could possibly go wrong? " right? Better luck next year for you I hope.

 

[Warren Dean]

I really think the “JKL Whiskey Cup” would be the way to go, lol.

I think that rolls off the tongue much better.

 

[F Class John]

Here’s how I see another side of it and it has nothing to do with what should or shouldn’t be done. It’s just observations.

I see people who don’t understand there’s a difference between a club match, a regional match or something like SWN or Nationals. I’ve seen the mentality that shooting is shooting so what’s the difference?? I think because it IS “just shooting” in a lot of people’s minds nobody views it like other sports. Nobody who goes to SWN having barely shot at 1,000 yds would ever think of doing the NY Marathon just because they’re running around their neighborhood everyday and yet in our sport it happens all the time. Perhaps more “education” on websites as to what the average gear requirements or line and pit expectations are when promoting matches would help this?? This isn’t a sport with clear feeders to a national match so the more education there is the better everyone can manage expectations.

I also think there’s a certain mentality for people that say they can shoot pretty good either at club matches or on their own, want to do a match or two and can only take a certain amount of time off per year so they go for the biggest match they can attend so they aren’t ‘wasting’ their time and money. Does that make it right? I don’t know but I can at least understand why it happens that way.

Lastly, let’s face it, it’s really not easy for new people without good clubs or groups to find out WHERE matches are held or where to even start. I know when I was starting out people would talk about matches in my area and I had to spend a ton of time figuring it all out even when they told me where the match was being held. Eventually everyone gets tired of reinventing the wheel every time a new shooter wants to know everything there is to know about matches so it often gets whittled down to the bare information. Some clubs call it one thing and others call it something else and a lot of time people may have no idea what local or regional matches they can or can’t attend or if they have the right gear. I would almost argue that to a new shooter it’s more daunting to attend local or regional matches where they may be an outsider in a small group (cue guy walking into a bar as the music stops and everybody stares) as opposed to a national match where they view it as a corporate type event where they will blend in better and have better direction to follow. Almost every match I know of is run by volunteers including myself, and there’s little to no consistency in signing up for them from club to club and that is daunting for newbies. So when they read about big matches on websites that are explained well and easy to sign up for, they go for it whether they realize the implications or not.

It’s tough like everyone has said and there’s no clear answer right now but I’m sure we will see national matches evolve as f-class continues to grow. We all learned somehow, somewhere, although I do agree it shouldn’t be at a high level match. However all we can do for now is continue to educate other shooters on a local level as to what’s required and expected at regional and national matches and let people make their own decisions after that. If large matches start restricting based on classification or other factors then we add that to our education of new shooters and move forward.

 

[1lnbrdg]

I seriously doubt that a new shooter will learn much if anything from the shooter at the next firing point. Let us not forget we all started as newbies. On the other side of the coin, I agree with others that this match should require an NRA or equivalent classification. I plan my entire shooting season around the BSWN. I would be more than a a little peeved if I got 30 sec. pit service. I can honestly say that I gave and received 5-7 pit service the entire week. I'm a sling shooter, and couldn't get the rifle out of the pocket, replace the the empty with a fresh round and get the rifle back up before the target was in the air.
Rant off...................

Lloyd

You did good. Hope my service to you Sunday was just as good or better!

 

[rvn1968]

From my experience, I would not be the better shooter I am today if the BSWN was invitation only. In 2017, I was a Marksman. I had no real mentor in ftr at my club. I went to the BSWN and was able to spend 35 educational minutes Al Barnhart about my set up and position. Later that week I had a scope that was lent to me after mine broke. At 1,000 yards, bore sighting, Ian Klemm cranking on the turret and Brian litz giving us the come up I hit the target first shot. Besides that I had so many conversations and got so many wind tips I got better instantly.

Since then I have been very fortunate to have friendships from that match. And I have learned so much. I never would have gained so much without that one match in 2017.

Without new shooters in the pipeline and learning from the best I fear there would be a lot of lost info. I don't think there is any perfect one way to look/run at a match like the BSWN. But as I understand it, it's a pro/am and it's serving it's purpose.

Another consideration is the classification. I know a few good ftr shooters from nevada, idaho, wyoming that are not as high as experts but also shoot at some nasty ranges. A higher class may not accurately assess the quality and knowledge of the shooter.

This is just another point of view. Not right or wrong I hope. Just my first hand experience.

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

Ok where to start.

First: The SWN used to have a school on the Monday and Tuesday before the event. In fact this was the first year we did not have the clinic, because everyone wants to shoot and no one wants to help. This match was started for three reasons. One to get industry and the shooters together. Two, to have an opportunity for new shooters to shoot along side world class shooters. Three, to provide an example of how a world class match should be run so that other ranges/clubs could incorporate things done at the SWN to their own matches.

Two: It has been suggested to make the match into an invitational or require something to get into the match. I can tell you that if the match does become an invitational it will go from the "Largest Long Range Match" in the country to the smallest because there are only a handful of people that would be invited that make the matches fun. The rest have such huge egos and have forgotten that we do this for the fun of it. Lets face it this is an amateur sport that at the end of the day doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. All that really matters is the camaraderie and the friendships that come out of it.

Three: It has also been suggested that we break the Sling shooters and f class shooters apart and hold the match for sling shooters one week then the next week we hold it for the f class shooters. I can tell you that if we do any version of this it will be that we hold the match for sling shooters and that is it. They bitch less. There is not enough help to make this happen. Heck I took 10 days off of work to help run the match, and so did the rest of the people that helped run the match. The stat officer came from Washington just to help with the match. Then you have people like Karen L. and Bev B. that come with their husbands and help out with the match. This match is run by volunteers and to ask them to stay for two weeks is uncalled for.

There is nothing saying that the SWN (notice there is no "B" in it) has to be the only must attend large match in the country. To that I challenge you to help build up other matches. Like JKL said Michelle & I will gladly provide tips and insight. The problem is that you will have to sacrifice your shooting to do so, and no body is willing to do it. For example Michelle doesn't even shoot any more, and I still shoot but I wouldn't say good.

To that, rant over. I will post registration info for 2020 sometime in the future. Now onto running the Cactus Classic Benchrest Match and in October the NBRSA Group Nationals.

 

[ballisticdaddy]

I attended the SWN for the first time and I have been shooting matches for a few years now. I believe it was organized very well especially for the amount of shooters in attendance. It was also very enlightening to shoot with national champions and believe that is part of the draw for us non-professional shooters. My only surprise during that week was at the team matches we had a young lady that had NEVER pulled a target Appreciate all the volunteers and especially @Matthew Schwartzkopf for putting on one of the best matches of the year, can't wait for next year!

 

[Matthew Schwartzkopf]

I attended the SWN for the first time and I have been shooting matches for a few years now. I believe it was organized very well especially for the amount of shooters in attendance. It was also very enlightening to shoot with national champions and believe that is part of the draw for us non-professional shooters. My only surprise during that week was at the team matches we had a young lady that had NEVER pulled a target Appreciate all the volunteers and especially @Matthew Schwartzkopf for putting on one of the best matches of the year, can't wait for next year!

That is sad that a Team would send down someone to pull targets for them that has never pulled. In the end it hurts another team.

FYI there is a team of us that put on the event.

 

[1shot]

You did good. Hope my service to you Sunday was just as good or better!

I am at a loss sir. We’re we squadded on the same target?

Lloyd

 

[Mastershot]

This was my first year at BSWN, I came to learn and see what others are shooting. I did not shoot well in the wind, my gun was well under power.
But I knew this coming to the match. I had a really good time and learned a lot. Thanks to Mrs Harris for getting to shoot a day with her and was able to watch and learn.

 

[Acyr]

Ok where to start.
Two: It has been suggested to make the match into an invitational or require something to get into the match. I can tell you that if the match does become an invitational it will go from the "Largest Long Range Match" in the country to the smallest because there are only a handful of people that would be invited that make the matches fun. The rest have such huge egos and have forgotten that we do this for the fun of it. Lets face it this is an amateur sport that at the end of the day doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. All that really matters is the camaraderie and the friendships that come out of it.

Nailed it!!!

 

[Warren Dean]

Here’s how I see another side of it and it has nothing to do with what should or shouldn’t be done. It’s just observations.

I see people who don’t understand there’s a difference between a club match, a regional match or something like SWN or Nationals. I’ve seen the mentality that shooting is shooting so what’s the difference?? I think because it IS “just shooting” in a lot of people’s minds nobody views it like other sports. Nobody who goes to SWN having barely shot at 1,000 yds would ever think of doing the NY Marathon just because they’re running around their neighborhood everyday and yet in our sport it happens all the time. Perhaps more “education” on websites as to what the average gear requirements or line and pit expectations are when promoting matches would help this?? This isn’t a sport with clear feeders to a national match so the more education there is the better everyone can manage expectations.

I also think there’s a certain mentality for people that say they can shoot pretty good either at club matches or on their own, want to do a match or two and can only take a certain amount of time off per year so they go for the biggest match they can attend so they aren’t ‘wasting’ their time and money. Does that make it right? I don’t know but I can at least understand why it happens that way.

Lastly, let’s face it, it’s really not easy for new people without good clubs or groups to find out WHERE matches are held or where to even start. I know when I was starting out people would talk about matches in my area and I had to spend a ton of time figuring it all out even when they told me where the match was being held. Eventually everyone gets tired of reinventing the wheel every time a new shooter wants to know everything there is to know about matches so it often gets whittled down to the bare information. Some clubs call it one thing and others call it something else and a lot of time people may have no idea what local or regional matches they can or can’t attend or if they have the right gear. I would almost argue that to a new shooter it’s more daunting to attend local or regional matches where they may be an outsider in a small group (cue guy walking into a bar as the music stops and everybody stares) as opposed to a national match where they view it as a corporate type event where they will blend in better and have better direction to follow. Almost every match I know of is run by volunteers including myself, and there’s little to no consistency in signing up for them from club to club and that is daunting for newbies. So when they read about big matches on websites that are explained well and easy to sign up for, they go for it whether they realize the implications or not.

It’s tough like everyone has said and there’s no clear answer right now but I’m sure we will see national matches evolve as f-class continues to grow. We all learned somehow, somewhere, although I do agree it shouldn’t be at a high level match. However all we can do for now is continue to educate other shooters on a local level as to what’s required and expected at regional and national matches and let people make their own decisions after that. If large matches start restricting based on classification or other factors then we add that to our education of new shooters and move forward.

Well put.

 

[Warren Dean]

Ok where to start.

First: The SWN used to have a school on the Monday and Tuesday before the event. In fact this was the first year we did not have the clinic, because everyone wants to shoot and no one wants to help. This match was started for three reasons. One to get industry and the shooters together. Two, to have an opportunity for new shooters to shoot along side world class shooters. Three, to provide an example of how a world class match should be run so that other ranges/clubs could incorporate things done at the SWN to their own matches.

Two: It has been suggested to make the match into an invitational or require something to get into the match. I can tell you that if the match does become an invitational it will go from the "Largest Long Range Match" in the country to the smallest because there are only a handful of people that would be invited that make the matches fun. The rest have such huge egos and have forgotten that we do this for the fun of it. Lets face it this is an amateur sport that at the end of the day doesn't mean jack shit in the grand scheme of things. All that really matters is the camaraderie and the friendships that come out of it.

Three: It has also been suggested that we break the Sling shooters and f class shooters apart and hold the match for sling shooters one week then the next week we hold it for the f class shooters. I can tell you that if we do any version of this it will be that we hold the match for sling shooters and that is it. They bitch less. There is not enough help to make this happen. Heck I took 10 days off of work to help run the match, and so did the rest of the people that helped run the match. The stat officer came from Washington just to help with the match. Then you have people like Karen L. and Bev B. that come with their husbands and help out with the match. This match is run by volunteers and to ask them to stay for two weeks is uncalled for.

There is nothing saying that the SWN (notice there is no "B" in it) has to be the only must attend large match in the country. To that I challenge you to help build up other matches. Like JKL said Michelle & I will gladly provide tips and insight. The problem is that you will have to sacrifice your shooting to do so, and no body is willing to do it. For example Michelle doesn't even shoot any more, and I still shoot but I wouldn't say good.

To that, rant over. I will post registration info for 2020 sometime in the future. Now onto running the Cactus Classic Benchrest Match and in October the NBRSA Group Nationals.

Spot on, Matt. You and Michelle , et. al. are a breed apart. Thank you for your efforts.

 

[dougridgeore]

At this year match I saw a lot of targets going into the air with spotters clearly on the line going into the air with the lower score.... seem to me touching the line means different things to different people or perhaps regions of the country. In fact I saw a situation where the two pit pullers on a target were constantly arguing over whether it was touching the line.
How can we make this a fun match for everyone and that everyone in the pits has at least a rudimentary understanding of how to look at a hole say it touching the line or not and hang the paddle in the appropriate spot it simply should not be subject to interpretation or judgment.
I’m not saying these incidents were perpetrated by seasoned shooters or beginners but I wished they would include a brief description of making the call and include it in the match bulletin. For all you that are going to respond with why did you not say something. I did.

 

[jkl]

Matt, thanks for responding and you could not have said it better!

John