NO MORE POWDER ON THE SHELVES

[284winner]

My shelves, and no, they are not empty bottlesView attachment 1083292

You gotta be from TEXAS... Everything is bigger there.

 

[Termite I]

"You must be referring to the peoples republic of Boulder or some other place on the front range. Here on the western slope, powder and primers are on the shelf."
CW

Yep, that's the one. You are supposed to register your AR's there also. Sportsman's Warehouse has had empty powder containers on the shelves as long as I can remember but Jax down the street from me has several different powders and primers on the shelves.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

During the holidays was in Helena MT and making the rounds to some of the local sporting goods stores. Went in Bob Wards to check on there powder supply and noticed there was no gun powder on the shelf. I asked the guy behind the gun counter where there powder was. He said, "there's a new fire marshal in town" and he made them pull all the powder off the shelves and they had to keep it in the back room !! Fire code ! How the heck you supposed to sell powder when you can't display it ? Go over to Sportsman Warehouse and they have a few "empties" sitting on the shelf. Fire Marshal hit everybody in town ! Them being a bigger store they could put 20# on the shelve and only have a total of 400# in the building. So you have to ask if they have a can of say, 4895, then they have to go to the back room and look. What a pain. With Helena being the state capitol I wonder if our not so honorable Governor has anything to do with this nonsense ?

Lonnie

Same up here in Kalispell. One of our local stores in uses a display board with cards hanging on hooks with images of the powder bottles. The amount of cards on each hook tells you how much of that powder they have in stock. Youvgrab a card and take it to them, then they go get the powder for you. The last card on the hook has a sticker that says "Out of Stock" below the image. Pretty smart way of allowing customers to shop for powder they have while still adhering to fire code.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

And it has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with "liberals getting their way" or any othe politics. Its simply about fire code amendments. Makes sense to me. Please dont turn this into another BS thread about politics

The amount of powder I keep on hand at my house actually worries me as a fire hazard all the time. I need to start doing some serious shopping for a good flame locker to store it all. Sucks that the big flame lockers are so expensive.

 

[OldManTA]

Could be they are trying to keep those containers from walking out of the store before they are paid for???
Tom Alves

 

[TheOtherZilla]

This is exactly why I keep a LOT of powder on hand. LGS doesn't always have my needs in stock. Got caught with my pants down once. Never again..

 

[Bigguy1951]

The Sportsman's Warehouse in Las Cruces, NM keeps a current printed inventory on the firearms counter and the empties on the shelf. A quick check of the list will tell you what you need without waiting for help. Works great.

 

[savagedasher]

The Sportsman's Warehouse in Las Cruces, NM keeps a current printed inventory on the firearms counter and the empties on the shelf. A quick check of the list will tell you what you need without waiting for help. Works great.

Hit the easy button
It apparent they can’t display the powder

 

[spencerhenry]

Simply how the country is going. Tell people that some new rule is for "safety" and therefore you should not question it. I would be surprised if there has ever been a case of a gun shop having a problem with powders being a fire hazard.
Powder burns, so does firewood, should stores not have stacks of firewood in front of the building? What about lumber yards? What about all the gallons and gallons of oil on the shelves at walmart?

 

[savagedasher]

Simply how the country is going. Tell people that some new rule is for "safety" and therefore you should not question it. I would be surprised if there has ever been a case of a gun shop having a problem with powders being a fire hazard.
Powder burns, so does firewood, should stores not have stacks of firewood in front of the building? What about lumber yards? What about all the gallons and gallons of oil on the shelves at walmart?

I don’t think fire wood or oil burns as easy as powder
Never have I had to pay hazmaad on
Wood or oil

 

[Someoldguy]

Fire regulations are different for a facility that is occupied 24/7 as well.

My understanding is that black powder storage has become a MAJOR headache for retailers as it is classified as an explosive. I believe this is the major reason why true black powder is so difficult to find anymore.

 

[loinhunter]

Cabelas In maryland, of all liberal maven states has powder on the shelves. Fair selection too. Imr 7977, r16 , r22,varget, imr 4831 and many others. I guess if they can sell charcoal lighter fluid, matches and propane cylinders, powder is still ok.

 

[savagedasher]

Fire regulations are different for a facility that is occupied 24/7 as well.

My understanding is that black powder storage has become a MAJOR headache for retailers as it is classified as an explosive. I believe this is the major reason why true black powder is so difficult to find anymore.

More then likely it because not many us it

 

[people]

I do not remember the last time I actually saw filled cans of powder on the shelves.

 

[Jet]

Stopped in a Sportsman's Warehouse in Western WA on the way home today and didn't see any 8LB jugs. Asked a store worker and he said they same thing Lonnie said. Fire Marshal told them to keep them off the main floor. Four months ago there were a bunch out in the main store.

Rich

 

[fyrewall]

If I sold powder and had 100's of pounds of it in stock I would keep it in a secure wooden locker., in a back room, or close off-site. But to calm down my customers and promote good business and deals, I would post an inventory in sight. Any powder removed from the locker would be bar code scanned to keep the inventory current. I would strive to make good deals and sell lots of powder. I am reminded, upon reading the MSDS, in event of fire -- essentially, it recommends that your best reaction is to just leave (quickly). Keeping my powder in a secure powder magazine would make me happy.

 

[rammac]

I work at one of the major retailers in Helena and yes, it was the Fire Marshal that forced us to remove the powder and primers from the shelves and no, it's not a political conspiracy, it's the stupidity of the insurance companies and the ignorance of the law makers that caused this problem.

Montana Code 50-61-121. Restrictions on storage of smokeless powder and small arms primers
Current as of: 2016
(1) A retail establishment may stock up to 400 pounds of smokeless powder on the premises of a building with a sprinkler system or 200 pounds on the premises of a building without a sprinkler system if storage of this stock conforms to the following conditions:
(a) no more than 20 pounds are on display in a customer service area;
(b) the storage area is clearly posted as off limits to customers;
(c) the storage area is clearly posted prohibiting smoking or any open flame or sparks; and
(d) the storage area is a room designed and constructed to restrict smoke travel that is separate from the customer service area, that has a self-closing entrance door, and that conforms to one of the following:
(i) It is constructed of material sufficient to achieve a 1-hour fire resistant-rated barrier between the storage area and the customer service area. The smokeless powder must be stored in cabinets made of wood or equivalent material that is at least 1 inch thick, and each cabinet must contain no more than 200 pounds of smokeless powder. Cabinets must be separated by 25 feet.
(ii) It is protected by a fire suppression sprinkler system approved by the statefire prevention and investigation section of the department of justice or a chief of a governmental fire agency organized under Title 7, chapter 33, or the chief’s designee, and the storage area has cabinets as provided for in subsection (1)(d)(i).
(iii) Smokeless powder stock is contained in a cabinet with casters and constructed of wood at least 1 inch thick that is covered on all sides with 5/8-inch sheetrock.
(2) A retail establishment may stock up to 250,000 small arms primers if storage of this stock conforms to the following conditions:
(a) no more than 20,000 primers in a building with a sprinkler system or 10,000 primers in a building without a sprinkler system are on display in a customer service area;
(b) the storage area must conform to the conditions imposed in subsections (1)(a) through (1)(d), except that no more than 125,000 small arms primers may be stored in one cabinet, and the minimum required separation between cabinets is 15 feet; and
(c) small arms primers are retained in packaging approved by the U.S. department of transportation.

 

[JayHHI6818]

Plenty of powder on shelves where I live

 

[PatMiles]

Never have I had to pay hazmaad onWood or oil

Give the gubmint time, give um time.

 

[Bert2368]

WARNING: RANTING MAY ENSUE BELOW

Hi all. As my day job, I blow things up, set things on fire- Or occasionaly just give that appearance for various film/video/stage productions.

I store something approaching 40 tons of category 1 hazardous materials for my business right now.

Category 1 = EXPLOSIVES.

Yeah, I know, they got smokeless powder and many black powder substitutes classified as (friendly, unicorn approved!) "flammable solids" for TRANSPORT, rather than as (dangerous, guaranteed to make the earth mother cry) explosives like black powder- Which won't save adjacent folk's lives or buildings if you manage to ignite a crap load of it wherever you're storing it.

Getting the propellants out of the (customer inhabited parts of) stores has NOTHING to do with political parties.

Has EVERYTHING to do with the National Fire Prevention Association, which is the INSURANCE "INDUSTRY'S" code writing group, which exists for the SOLE PURPOSE of INCREASING MEMBERS PROFITS by LOWERING INSURANCE PAYOUTS MADE BY THOSE MEMBERS. (As a side effect, reduced insurance payout costs by members has historically coincided with a reduction in the number of people killed by things that members insure against, like, oh, say building fires?).

Go look at your state fire codes. These almost UNIVERSALLY enroll some years revision of NFPA code wholesale. Everything from building wiring practices to alarm & sprinkler requirements to how much of which types of explosives can be kept where.

Check when the last revision was enrolled by your state legislature. You may find that the rules your fire inspector operates under have CHANGED. Or, totally crazy idea, I know- Why not CALL THE STATE FIRE MARSHALLS OFFICE AND ASK THEM if codes changed. Or if something REEEEALLY bad happened recently?

If the USA had a major retail space & propellant storage related fire/deaths/injuries/financial loss incident, it would wake up code enforcement people and causes them to suddenly start to look for things they had been letting slide until a disaster rapped them across the nose.

Or maybe the "new broom" fire inspector actually read the existing codes and is sweeping clean.

--------------------
(Ranting starts below)

Trust me, fire AND insurance driven fire codes are apolitical. Bad luck, stupidity and carelessness of people handling hazmat is also no respector of political beliefs. If you get sloppy, people die, red or blue. The fire code is WRITTEN IN BLOOD.