Your also going to find on a paper test
The bullet will be asleep at shorter distance
Barrel tuners. Good or a waste of time?
- Thread starter geordiesniper
- Start date
The bullet will be asleep at shorter distance
I have never written on any forum anywhere however i feel the need to spill out my " tuning with a tuner "
I was extremely reluctant to try one even though ive been shooting matches every month for years. The reason was because of all the differing info being reported and complicated to cause me to convince myself that its something that puts weight on the end of the barrel that i dont need.
The most troubling one to me was to tune your barrel then screw your tuner on and it will be close - then you can tune with your tuner. While many im sure still do it - it made no sense to me. Im just an old country boy that looks for the simple things in life to make it easier or happier.
Well - im glad i gave a tuner a try. I wanted to do things my way and use the kiss principle. I look at any part of the barrel as just a barrel in part. The tuner to me is just my barrel ( the end of my barrel ) except i have the magic ability to make my barrel shorter or longer. I tune the barrel as i traditionally do by achieving my best loaded charge with the tuner on. I prefer to do this ( if permitted ) at around 70° temp ( air and powder ) with the tuner rotated to zero as a reference point. No big deal if the air and powder temp is compliant - just helps. When my charge is tuned where i want it - ( when its dotting ) im done ( with that part ). When im done i pretty much never have to change the charge again. Then - say its dotting at 70° and it heats up one day - i simply make my barrel shorter - if its colder than 70° - i make it longer. This is achieved by less than three numbers forward and aft ( .006 from shortest to longest barrel setting. Its the easiest and simplest thing in the world. Wish i had gotten on board with this years ago! A good way for me to remember this is to think of it as if the bullet is delayed getting to the end of the barrel then i delay the tuner or i could say - temp is down so tuner is out ( down and out ) if the bullet is advancing getting to the end of the barrel then i advance the tuner ( temp up barrel in ) or up and in. Of course there is other conditions that can and will cause powder to react different but once learned it goes hand in hand with learned tuner movement.
Very little tuner movement. My experience is three full numbers will take a barrel that is dotting slap out of tune. This is with a 7 ounce tuner on a typical short range centerfire benchrest setup.
So my response to the OP is ; A tuner is the best practice of time that ive experienced in KEEPING my barrel in tune.
I also think the easiest and most productive tuner to use has been the Ezell tuner. Im so thankfull for people like Bart and Mike who have put in the time! Sorry for the long post. May be my only and last. Might as well made it count.
See you on the firing line. Alan
I was extremely reluctant to try one even though ive been shooting matches every month for years. The reason was because of all the differing info being reported and complicated to cause me to convince myself that its something that puts weight on the end of the barrel that i dont need.
The most troubling one to me was to tune your barrel then screw your tuner on and it will be close - then you can tune with your tuner. While many im sure still do it - it made no sense to me. Im just an old country boy that looks for the simple things in life to make it easier or happier.
Well - im glad i gave a tuner a try. I wanted to do things my way and use the kiss principle. I look at any part of the barrel as just a barrel in part. The tuner to me is just my barrel ( the end of my barrel ) except i have the magic ability to make my barrel shorter or longer. I tune the barrel as i traditionally do by achieving my best loaded charge with the tuner on. I prefer to do this ( if permitted ) at around 70° temp ( air and powder ) with the tuner rotated to zero as a reference point. No big deal if the air and powder temp is compliant - just helps. When my charge is tuned where i want it - ( when its dotting ) im done ( with that part ). When im done i pretty much never have to change the charge again. Then - say its dotting at 70° and it heats up one day - i simply make my barrel shorter - if its colder than 70° - i make it longer. This is achieved by less than three numbers forward and aft ( .006 from shortest to longest barrel setting. Its the easiest and simplest thing in the world. Wish i had gotten on board with this years ago! A good way for me to remember this is to think of it as if the bullet is delayed getting to the end of the barrel then i delay the tuner or i could say - temp is down so tuner is out ( down and out ) if the bullet is advancing getting to the end of the barrel then i advance the tuner ( temp up barrel in ) or up and in. Of course there is other conditions that can and will cause powder to react different but once learned it goes hand in hand with learned tuner movement.
Very little tuner movement. My experience is three full numbers will take a barrel that is dotting slap out of tune. This is with a 7 ounce tuner on a typical short range centerfire benchrest setup.
So my response to the OP is ; A tuner is the best practice of time that ive experienced in KEEPING my barrel in tune.
I also think the easiest and most productive tuner to use has been the Ezell tuner. Im so thankfull for people like Bart and Mike who have put in the time! Sorry for the long post. May be my only and last. Might as well made it count.
See you on the firing line. Alan
Mulligan
Silver $$ Contributor
I’ll show you tomorrow what I’m doing and how I arrive at what I’m doing. It’s not Jim’s sine wave method. You can’t do what I’m doing without a tuner.
In fairness Mike Ezell’s tuner is a great piece of work. The problem is Mike doesn’t realize there’s another Level to using a tuner.
I’m going to explain this one time on the board. After that I’m Never going to mention or discuss it on this board again!
Hope everyone has a good night!
Bart[/QUOTE]
Thanks Bart
Looking forward to it.
CW
In fairness Mike Ezell’s tuner is a great piece of work. The problem is Mike doesn’t realize there’s another Level to using a tuner.
I’m going to explain this one time on the board. After that I’m Never going to mention or discuss it on this board again!
Hope everyone has a good night!
Bart[/QUOTE]
Thanks Bart
Looking forward to it.
CW
Tim Singleton
Gold $$ Contributor
Made a screen shot of this post and saved
I've always tried to find a seating depth that will swallow a spread of charges hadn't thought of looking around the tuner for the best spot
You have no idea what I know or dont and how many times I have discussed optimal poi with people, Bart. You just think you're the only one that knows anything.
The reason I seldom post about positive compensation is the number of variables and subjectivity. But yes, I do believe pc is real. If you want to delve into that, we can but it's not all about tuners or barrels. It's about center of gravity, how the gun rotates, stock design, rigidity, angles, front and rear rests, shooting uphill or downhill....tons of factors but pc ain't just about tuners.
I had a hard enough time convincing you to move my tuner one mark at a time. You acted the same way then. I didn't think you were ready for pc. Or maybe it was that I didn't feel like arguing we it you. Yes, you're an accomplished shooter. You should wear that badge with honor and maybe a tad of humility instead of using it as the reason why you know better than anyone about everything shooting related.
Go ahead. I'll sit back and watch.
jimmymac
Jim McGregor
Me too. I hope this thread can remain civil and doesn’t get canned. This tuner stuff is fascinating to me.
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Mike,
You’re just like a women with two black eyes! You won’t shut up and you ain’t listening! You damn sure aren’t going to learn anything! You’re to busy trying to convince everyone you know all there is to know about tuners and shooting in general.
Since you’re the resident expert on everything with a major in tuners. Please tell everyone how it’s done. So far no one has come close.
We are all ears! Please enlighten us! You obviously know everything already!
Tic Toc!
Bart
I thought it was just the other way around Bart. That's why I said for you to go ahead, I'll sit back and watch...and hopefully learn. I have been sharing tuner info all along. And yes, I've discussed optimal poi countless times with anyone that asks.
Here's a good read by someone else that can see it and gets it. Is this what you're referring to, that I just don't understand and can't shoot well enough to see?
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/load-data-for-6mm-ppc.3960652/page-2#post-37310607
Business people who use the forum to pimp their business and then act like asses should worry about causing harm to their businesses. IMHO!
~Gary
I'm sorry if you feel like I'm the one being an ass. Just trying to share info. I won't even try to understand why you must feel that way. I won't likely change your mind. So I apologize and will leave it at that. I thought everything was going fine until I was told that only a select few can shoot well enough to see what Bart can and that I don't understand my own product. Even then, I thought I said that didn't wish to argue and I'd sit back and let him talk.
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I'm not saying anyone in particular is being an ass. This whole argument has become sort of asinine as it is obvious that everyone has their own ideas which aren't going to change in our lifetimes. But sometimes it's like the guy that cuts me off in traffic in a vehicle with his business name on the door. It becomes pretty unlikely I'll use that business next time I need that service. Just saying.......
Terry
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks!
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/load-data-for-6mm-ppc.3960652/page-2#post-37310607
Helps me understand more.
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/load-data-for-6mm-ppc.3960652/page-2#post-37310607
Helps me understand more.
I get it. I just feel like I was the one that was attacked in this case. I feel like Terry said earlier...post something to try to be of help and get slapped in the back of the head.
Nothing personal, there were two business represented in this "discussion".
jimmymac
Jim McGregor
I'm still hoping this thread doesn't get canned...
I've followed the tuner information Mike has presented on this thread and in others. He's always consistent with his information. Now I want to hear from Bart to see how he skins the same cat.
As I said previously, I'm fascinated with this stuff and trying to up my game and learn. If Bart took the highway to get to his destination and Mike used a two lane road to go to the same place, did they not both get there? They just took different routes.
I'm all for hearing about the possibilities. I'm for hearing about the differences and similarities so I can go and test these things and come to my own conclusions. Hoping that the tone of this thread takes a turn for the better.
Jim
I've followed the tuner information Mike has presented on this thread and in others. He's always consistent with his information. Now I want to hear from Bart to see how he skins the same cat.
As I said previously, I'm fascinated with this stuff and trying to up my game and learn. If Bart took the highway to get to his destination and Mike used a two lane road to go to the same place, did they not both get there? They just took different routes.
I'm all for hearing about the possibilities. I'm for hearing about the differences and similarities so I can go and test these things and come to my own conclusions. Hoping that the tone of this thread takes a turn for the better.
Jim
No Mike! That’s not it! I’m not concerned about POI while I’m testing.
Bart
Thank you Jim! The sad part is that we don't even disagree about it except for the "quadrant" terminology, if you wanna get right down to it. I've told people for years that tuners time bullet exit with "optimal" muzzle position and that imo the best place for bullet exit to happen is just prior to the barrel's vertical apex. Not sure, but I think he and I are saying the same thing in that regard. Quadrants just confuse me and I don't see the point. That's really all.
Ok. Waiting.
Terry
Gold $$ Contributor
The link above helped me understand keeping my powder charge right. Can something similar be done with a fixed charge and tuner adjustment or
am I going the wrong way?
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