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Most People Are Fooling Themselves.....

I have a “good” story to mention. I have a friend who’s also my lawyer. I take him shooting 2 or three times a year. His uncle gave him a Marlin lever action 30-30. A couple weeks ago, he brought it to the range and shot it with my handloads. He shot about 20 rounds off sand bags while I was testing loads in my new Creedmoor. We took a break and went to check the targets at 100. I couldn’t believe it. One target had 10 holes near the bull. Most were just inside 4” but 4 outliers made it a 6” group. I said “Outstanding”, because I didn’t expect him to hit paper. He says to me: “Can you put a scope on it?”;)
 
Either a rifle, cartrage, optics and shooter pull it off, or they go hunting with the normal range they use to hunt.

Just because some of us that shoot long range F Class or the Clay Bank 1700metres dosen't mean that we go out there to harvest game in this manner.

My Coach and I along with lots of shooters in competion shoot with in our means, 40, 135, 157, 227 yards, and a fraction further if the critter allows us time to set up on it.

The trick for the "majority" of us is to close the distance.

We would rather houner those with skills of a close range kill then take the chances of wounding any critter .

Shooting paper or Iron Silhouettes is one thing, but "Most" of us play with in our own personal limits.

That's what really counts .
 
So my yard has been wikkid noisy the last few weeks..... perty much every nite there's someone "sighting in for hunting season" and/or "checking their zero"

A few are trying out the 450 and 600yd targets to "find out if the marks in my custom turret are accurate"

They're all shooting factory rifles with factory ammo because "they don't have time to get into reloading....."

And most of them call me about an hour after dark on their way driving home and ask "what do you think the problem is with my......???" whatever

And "do you think we could fix this before hunting season?" because "600yds...."

It's depressing.

On every modern hunting show "600yds" is a chip shot...

All the guns "tested" in the glossy mags shoot "1/2moa with XXX ammunition"

On the forums and blogs EVERYBODY ELSE can get their gun to shoot "1/4 minute" by just squidging the whojummawhat'chit a fuzz-lick to the left......

I LIVE ON A RANGE.....

I BUILD CUSTOM RIFLES!!

WHY is it so hard for ME to "get any bullet to shoot" and to "tune any barrel" or to "find that magical factory ammo that shoots everything into 1/2 inch "when I do my part???"

I'm headed down the range in about 15 minutes to engage in hand-to-hand with a certain rifle I'm fighting to waterline..... there ain't nuttin' ON IT that's factory..... ain't nuttin' ON IT that didn't cost hunnerds of dollars......and it ain't shootin' 1/4moa at 600 (bugholess at 100 BTW....ES in the dust on the floor...)

.....and since it's a one-off I can't even go down to Walmart and get any magical factory loads from the chart in OL, LOL

I'm probably gonna' have to re-cut the throat, I'm trying several bullets of which I've only got a few hunnerd left cuz I'm friggin' DESPERATE.....I'll be going down my list of "stuff" before setting aside a BRAND NEW Krieger (which will probably bughole on another platform.....)


OK



Rant OFF ;)




Just prep'ing for battle



I ain't even asking for help, just venting a liddle!


LOL


al
Al,
Do you feel better now ?:cool:
 
Of coarse I don't think like others, but have yet to figure out what shooting a group at 100 yards tells me. I do zero at 100 and occasionally will shoot a 3 shot group to verify if my zero is off.

It can tell you a lot. On Tuesday, I figured out some stuff at 100 yards shooting a 20 MPH 3 to 9 crosswind. I shot some big groups, but also turned in a few low 2’s in that practice session. I shot the bad conditions on purpose practicing my hold offs and calling my shots. Good stuff. YMMV
 
Don't you all get it, these people read the gun magazines and believe all the crap they read about the inherent accuracy of the Creedmoor rifles and think its all true. And it can't BE TOO HARD IF A GUN WRITER CAN DO IT!!!!!
Amen to this ,and I'm not that impressed with the gun writers groups at all
 
It can tell you a lot. On Tuesday, I figured out some stuff at 100 yards shooting a 20 MPH 3 to 9 crosswind. I shot some big groups, but also turned in a few low 2’s in that practice session. I shot the bad conditions on purpose practicing my hold offs and calling my shots. Good stuff. YMMV
I suppose I guess, the last time I shot in a 20 mph full value wind from 3 o'clock, I was beating a IPSC up at 1500 yards with my Dasher. It was kind of impressive. I took it to 1600 but my hit pct dropped off sharply.
 
Al,
Do you feel better now ?:cool:
Ohh yeahhhh..... found my waterline...m

AND BTW..... My "vent" was never about the guys trying to do better... it was about the fact that the innernet, the magazines etc all seem to make it easy. And it AIN'T...... sometimes I feel like the bearer of bad news because these guys take it on faith that what they're reading is true. Then they come out to the range and run out of ammo before they even find a group center :)

It ain't about " help"..... it's about unreal expectations....
 
“When I do my part...”. The issue here is ego. No person wants to be seen as a less than shot. Unfortunately it takes a LOT of work to become an adequate shot and a “METRIC CRAP TON” to become a “1/4 inch shot”. Most neither have the time or money to become a shooter at that level. So they give the above excuse, chuff out their chest and believe in the tooth fairy.

It also takes a ton of money to get a rifle even capable of being a 1/4 inch rifle. The average RemSavchester is at best a one minute rifle. Add premium factory ammunition and you’re lucky if it holds a minute and a quarter. Good luck with WalMart ammo. You might get it to be a 3/4 minute gun if you have it expertly bedded and a good trigger installed, but just barely.

Show up on a range with an honest to God precision rifle and these guys all find that they need to go home and mow the lawn.

I think factory guns have improved immensely in recent times, or I've just been lucky. I haven't seen a factory gun that wouldn't shoot 0.5MOA in the last decade. My RPR shoots under 0.5MOA consistently with handloads (dunno about factory, never shot it). My buddies win70 in 30-06 dropped 3 shots right into 0.25 at 100. I didn't try it a second time for fear of ruining a good thing. My buddy couldn't get it to happen for him, kept throwing one out to an inch or so (he's got some bad trigger habits).

I just tell 'em the best way to buy targets at Walmart is a 300 pack.

View attachment 1069374

Fun story: I was a teenager shooting at Rampart Range (for those colorado springs folks who know) and a guy shows up, staples a plate to a shot up 2x4 frame out at 100, comes back and drops his backpack on the bench, rests the gun on it and shoots a single shot. Hit the plate out towards the edge. I head him say "good enough" and he left. He didn't even retrieve his plate. It left a tremendous impression upon me; I remember the whole event vividly all these years later. It seemed so preposterous that he would consider that enough. He wasn't centered, he wasn't within even a couple inches.

I mean, I'm no hunter, but I'm pretty sure there aren't nice benches to get a good solid rest on out there, wherever you happen to stumble upon your deer after a night drinking PBR or keystone light or coors light around a campfire. And yet, they all sit there at the benches with solid rests, shoot a 2MOA or worse group and say "good enough". I know my limits. I can't shoot worth a damn unless its prone with a bipod or off a bench. Off-hand standing up, I'm lucky to shoot 3" at 100 and I wouldn't dare shoot anything in those conditions. I don't often see anyone practice any sort of field position shooting which leads me to the question: do they even need a rifle that shoots better than that? Maybe 2MOA is good enough from a bench cause in the field they're too unstable to tell the difference!
 
Ohh yeahhhh..... found my waterline...m

AND BTW..... My "vent" was never about the guys trying to do better... it was about the fact that the innernet, the magazines etc all seem to make it easy. And it AIN'T...... sometimes I feel like the bearer of bad news because these guys take it on faith that what they're reading is true. Then they come out to the range and run out of ammo before they even find a group center :)

It ain't about " help"..... it's about unreal expectations....
Your rifle didn't read that book:cool:
 
At the range, typically the missing component is a range officer who is actively supervising the firing line the whole time that the range is open. As far as the shooters and their equipment go, adult males, who have several years of untutored shooting under their belts are the most difficult to teach anything about shooting. They can be totally clueless, be fully aware that you get much better results than they ever have, and they will still argue with you about simple things. Every so often I run across one is so driven to improve that he will actually follow directions, and I am able to move him forward a long way in a short time, but even then the test is whether any of that sticks long term. Most of the time, three months later, they will be back to their old habits. Some people just have problems managing with a whole list of important details. One of the important things to determine early on, when you are attempting to work with someone, is whether they have that ability, because if they do not, you are wasting both of your time.

Why aren't you at MY range? The only valuable tutoring I have received from anyone (since I bought my first rifle earlier this year), is the great knowledge I've gained from this forum. I haven't met too many people in person since my addiction to shooting started, who have any experience to back up their bold claims. I would love to get some one-on-one insight about my shooting, but the nearest ranges with any amount of experienced shooters are at least 90 minutes away.

Regarding the OP, regrettably, I am one of those people who wants to get 1/2" MOA with a factory rifle and factory ammunition. I'm getting close at 100 yds, but you'll be happy to know there are some sane people who are realistic about what to expect. Whitetail season started today. My buddy and I went to the range and attempted 200 yd shots for the first time (previously I was only able to access 100 yds). Both of us decided that we are not good enough to justify a license this year. His shots were way too far off target. Mine were good enough to justify a clean boiler room shot at 200 yds, but remember that I was shooting prone with a bipod, well-rested with controlled breathing, had a perfectly stable target, and I could shoot at any time I wanted. Now, imagine that I've been hiking 4 miles (tired), the deer is turned at an odd angle, there is no chance to use a bipod because you are hunting in a forest, and the deer is moving. Even after many trips to the range, and about 350 rounds, I still need more practice.
 
I've got a part time neighbor that swore that he could drop any elk out to 500 yards with his .300 short mag from a standing position - he hasn't made that brag since last season, he failed to hit his bull at 350 yards, then again at 280 yards, and finally made his kill at 240 yards from a prone position, rested on his pack. This is the same guy that was convinced that he was going to carry his elk out - whole, by himself, after all, he'd taken lots of elk in Washington state and always carried them out by himself.

Yeah - since turning 65, I haven't been able to do that anymore. :eek::pRG
 
To get "ready for hunting season" my buddy in CO drove down to San Diego where I installed a new barrel on his rifle 2 weeks before Antelope season. He went back home, did a little load development and then on opening morning he and his son killed 2 antelopes with 2 shots at 380 and 560 yards by 10am. What's so hard about that? Tell your local guys to quit whining and get a well built rifle.
 
To get "ready for hunting season" my buddy in CO drove down to San Diego where I installed a new barrel on his rifle 2 weeks before Antelope season. He went back home, did a little load development and then on opening morning he and his son killed 2 antelopes with 2 shots at 380 and 560 yards by 10am. What's so hard about that? Tell your local guys to quit whining and get a well built rifle.
Well built rifle and a lot of experience about load development :D i live in west central indiana there is very few places you could safely shoot a animal at over 200 yards. They just recently made .243 and up legal, before that was shotgun or pistol caliber rifles only.
 
I suppose I guess, the last time I shot in a 20 mph full value wind from 3 o'clock, I was beating a IPSC up at 1500 yards with my Dasher. It was kind of impressive. I took it to 1600 but my hit pct dropped off sharply.

1500 yards is a poke. I’m not familiar with IPSC. What is the goal at that distance?

For me, I’m striving to be a good SR group shooter with a PPC so Im trying to up my game at 100 and 200. My old gun was tuned pretty well, so practicing at that yardage in bad conditions with a good gun was a valuable learning experience for me.

It feels great when I’m able to will my next shot into the previous hole using a good hold off. That builds confidence and gives me hope that some day the wind wont be my enemy. That’s why I’m practicing in bad conditions.

In competition, when the wind is blowing hard and most everyone is shooting big groups, a handful of guys will be shooting small. I’m trying to figure out how to be in the latter group instead of the former.
 
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1500 yards is a poke. I’m not familiar with IPSC. What is the goal at that distance?

For me, I’m striving to be a good SR group shooter with a PPC so Im trying to up my game at 100 and 200. My old gun was tuned pretty well, so practicing at that yardage in bad conditions with a good gun was a valuable learning experience for me.

It feels great when I’m able to will my next shot into the previous hole using a good hold off. That builds confidence and gives me hope that some day the wind wont be my enemy. That’s why I’m practicing in bad conditions.

In competition, when the wind is blowing hard and most everyone is shooting big groups, a handful of guys will be shooting small. I’m trying to figure out how to be in the latter group instead of the former.
IPSC itself is a type of pistol shooting competition. In my case, ipsc was a target, full size, 18" wide by 30" high but 7" of that is a head.
ipsc.jpg
At 1500, target width would be 1.2 moa.
 
As my work bond for our club I help with hunter sight in that is open to the public - it's our money maker for the range. Many of the once-a-year hunters need help getting on paper and some need help with everything from bore sighting to scope attachment to stock fit. Mostly it's a good day to help well meaning guys that for whatever reason can't/don't shoot on a regular basis. But there are those few that come in with a new 300 WinMag in a light sporter rifle and three boxes of ammo to shoot. After a couple of shots they're too flinchy to keep it on the range. But the season opens Saturday, so off they go. Occasionally a dad with a young boy or girl pushing them to shoot way too much gun (before they can handle a 22lr).

One of the SOP's for our hunter sight in is to have one of ROs' verify the ammo is correct for the firearm. We have some photos of what happens when ammo and rifle don't exactly match up. We generally have six or seven ROs' on the line helping and spotting shots for folks and rarely have any serious problems but they do take some watching.

I am glad that these folks come the range to get some help. It's better than not getting any help and going out and maybe we have made a little bit of a difference. I hope so.
 
ha
around here they prop the plate on a box at about 70 yd and call it good if they hit it. 'that's minute of bambi'


but only shotgun or muzzle loaders are legal and a long shot would be a full hundred yd.

but, alas, there is the few that believe they have a 250yd killer shotgun after that.
 
As my work bond for our club I help with hunter sight in that is open to the public - it's our money maker for the range. Many of the once-a-year hunters need help getting on paper and some need help with everything from bore sighting to scope attachment to stock fit. Mostly it's a good day to help well meaning guys that for whatever reason can't/don't shoot on a regular basis. But there are those few that come in with a new 300 WinMag in a light sporter rifle and three boxes of ammo to shoot. After a couple of shots they're too flinchy to keep it on the range. But the season opens Saturday, so off they go. Occasionally a dad with a young boy or girl pushing them to shoot way too much gun (before they can handle a 22lr).

One of the SOP's for our hunter sight in is to have one of ROs' verify the ammo is correct for the firearm. We have some photos of what happens when ammo and rifle don't exactly match up. We generally have six or seven ROs' on the line helping and spotting shots for folks and rarely have any serious problems but they do take some watching.

I am glad that these folks come the range to get some help. It's better than not getting any help and going out and maybe we have made a little bit of a difference. I hope so.
Well done,great way to get folks started in the right direction . Exactly what shooting sports needs these days .
 

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