.308 Suitable to 1000

[#40Fan]

I was shooting 43 grains of RE15 with a moly 175 SK. This was back when I didn't take the best notes, but I did have written that 43.5 should get me to 2700 fps, but it was scratched out and a "Stick with this" written next to 43 grains. 26" barrel.

 

[retired]

is a 11t a savage ?? i got no clue sorry.
all rifles are different.
i use lapua, but this would have been lake city
clearly marked "lr"

Retired
I'm wondering about the 175 gr running any where close 2900 FPS with RL -15 ?
I can't get close to that in my number 11 T
How many grains would you say are required also what brass is strong enough? I've heard Winchester is good although I've not tried any.
Just wondering
Jim

 

[IdahoSharpshooter]

I have finally started testing my AR-10 308 with the Palma bullet and 4895 and Varget. It will be interesting to see what velocities I get with each. I was able to secure a large quantity of Hornady Match brass, and have FL sized, trimmed to 2.010" and weight sorted it in 2gr lots. My starting load is 41gr of 4895. Erud shared his Varget data, safe in a boltgun, but I will start about 5gr less in the AR at 42gr.
wish me luck...

Rich

 

[Liven The Dream]

I had a 12 twist 28' barrel on a 700.
Run Berger 175 OTM's driven by 4320 That set up drilled Holes in Palma targets at 8,9&1000 .
Running a 10 twist now 30" with 185 Berger's and Varget . It gets it done.
Little group on paper make ringing steel easer . In some case gets a woody sooner.
Best of Luck

 

[Laurie]

With a 1:10-twist 28-inch barrel, you can shoot perfectly well to 1,000 if you load cannily. 'cannily' means selecting the right bullet for starters and avoiding some like the plague. The old 168 and 180gn Sierra MKs, and nearly all (Berger apart) older 168 thirties from Hornady, Nosler, Speer etc are dynamically unstable at 308 MVs beyond 800 yards and should be avoided. There are also many excellent bullets which are stable into transsonic terminal velocities (a curse of 308 at extended distances), but whose BCs are such that they are now ballistically inferior to more recent designs developed with FTR competition in mind. One such example is the 175gn SMK, an excellent and stable performer but whose BC is frankly poor by current state of the art 308 long-range bullet standards. In a 28-inch barrel, it will shoot OK to 1,000, but is far more wind affected than say more recent models from Berger, the Sierra TMKs etc. It will also be travelling at transsonic zone speeds at 1,000, while you want terminal velocities (>1.2 MACH / 1,351 fps) that exceed this.

There are lots of ways of skinning this cat - best of the 155s driven fast, top of the range mid-weights such as the 185gn Berger Juggernaut 300 fps slower, or 200gn and heavier bullets at around 2,550/600 fps. There are many ways of achieving the required MVs. I don't want to start reinventing the wheel in this thread as there are scores (hundreds?) of threads on this forum offering exceptional advice and sharing thousands of hours of actual experience in choosing load combinations for long-range 308 and producing handloads that work very well at 800 yards and beyond. Your rifling pitch rate lets you use nearly (but not quite all) heavy / long high-BC bullets in the 200gn and up range. The other factor is how is your rifle throated? Most of the super-BC bullets need significant freebores to allow long COALs and avoid over-deep bullet seating in the case. If short, you're better sticking to the best of the 155s or lighter bullets - the Berger 155.5gn Fullbore and 168gn Hybrid being two such. (Although the norm now in high-level long-range FTR is low drag 200s such as the Berger 200.20X and the new Sierra 195gn TMK / 200gn MK etc, I personally prefer and use this pair of lighter bullets in my custom-built FTR rifle.)

All I'll add is that if you are half-serious, start by buying one of the top quality small primer / small flash-hole 308 cases. They not only provide reduced MV ES values, but are very strong and accept high pressures for many loadings to get the last essential 100 fps MV. Until recently that meant Lapua 'Palma', but there are competitors now from Peterson Cartridge and others. Also, if you get into this, I'd advise buying Bryan Litz's book Applied Ballistics for Long Range Shooting 3rd edition and studying it carefully. It provides invaluable information of bullet efficiency and stability and advice on choosing long-range bullets.


https://store.appliedballisticsllc.com/Applied_Ballistics_For_Long_Range_Shooting_3rd_p/0006.htm

 

[JFrank]

is ab 11t a savage ?? i got no clue sorry.
all rifles are different.
i use lapua, but this would have been lake city
clearly marked "lr"

I've shot those loads "M118 LR" put to together by Bill Cook of Wasugal ammunition 'they don't reach anywhere close 2900 feet per second ,more like 2625. RL-15 is ok powder not great and I'm not sure what the armory used prior imr4064 I'm guessing,
You may want to check your facts again on that MV
J
11 T stands for 1/11 Twist rate
I prefer that twist rate over 1/10 in both my 308 caliber rifles

 

[Bart B.]

the original m118 lr ran close to 2900 fps but it was a bolt gun load that ate m14's, so they "compromised" on the current pos load.)

That's way over the M118LR original load specs I've seen that stated about 2600. What peak pressure did it have?

 

[Bart B.]

I have finally started testing my AR-10 308 with the Palma bullet and 4895 and Varget. It will be interesting to see what velocities I get with each.

As one of a few people who developed loads for the first prototype Sierra 155 grain Palma bullet back in 1991, our load for the first match using them was 45.3 grains of IMR4895, 210M primer in Winchester cases. It shot about half MOA at 600 in 25 some odd rifles, well under MOA at 1000. I used that same load in a few barrels that tested the same.

30 inch barrels got about 3000 fps with that load which is the minimum to ensure supersonic bullets at 1000 at low altitudes. A few people tried 26 inch barrels but accuracy suffered at 900 and 1000. When Varget came available, 46 grains equaled the IMR4895 performance.

 

[JFrank]

That's way over the M118LR original load specs I've seen that stated about 2600. What peak pressure did it have?

Agreed '
I've had rounds come apart being pushed to hard, someone's going to get hurt with a 175 at 2900 that's Palma speed.
J

 

[retired]

i have my facts straight. well over 10 years of working with it.
2625 is not anywhere near close to the last, slowest version of m118 lr.
you are getting ripped off paying for ammo that slow. labelled lr.
do what you want, have fun

I've shot those loads "M118 LR" put to together by Bill Cook of Wasugal ammunition 'they don't reach anywhere close 2900 feet per second ,more like 2625. RL-15 is ok powder not great and I'm not sure what the armory used prior imr4064 I'm guessing,
You may want to check your facts again on that MV
J
11 T stands for 1/11 Twist rate
I prefer that twist rate over 1/10 in both my 308 caliber rifles

 

[JFrank]

i have my facts straight. well over 10 years of working with it.
2625 is not anywhere near close to the last, slowest version of m118 lr.
you are getting ripped off paying for ammo that slow. labelled lr.
do what you want, have fun

I won't be standing next to that bomb.
I suppose we agree to disagree
Good topic thanks for the info
J

 

[velocette]

I have had good success using 43.3 gr VV N150, Win brass, CCI primer under Sierra 175 tmk bullets. 24" Criterion barrel, DPMS LR 308.

 

[4xforfun]

it is easy to say if you READ what i said.
the 10 ring is 10" in ftr, in SMALL GROUP SHOOTING 1000 benchrest the 10 ring is aprox 1/3 of that. i clearly said SMALL GROUP shooting..

Wrong.....the 10 ring on the IBS 1000 yard target is 7 inches....so.....two thirds, not one third.

Tod

To the op.....I LOVE big , heavy bullets.....try the 200 Hybrid or the 210 VLD out of your 308.

 

[eric32]

i am curious to ask what is the round count on the 1k BR matches vs the FClass 20rd with 3 relays or 4 if your feeling froggy. is it specific to heavy gun and light gun on the round count.

 

[memilanuk]

Wrong.....the 10 ring on the IBS 1000 yard target is 7 inches....so.....two thirds, not one third.

At the risk of being pedantic, it's closer to 50% (just under) in terms of *area*

 

[retired]

Wrong.....the 10 ring on the IBS 1000 yard target is 7 inches....so.....two thirds, not one third.

Tod

To the op.....I LOVE big , heavy bullets.....try the 200 Hybrid or the 210 VLD out of your 308.

(yes i was thinking of the x, my bad)

 

[retired]

yes but no one shoots AREAS..WE SHOOT SCORE AND GROUPS.
So not applicable to the SUBJECT.

At the risk of being pedantic, it's closer to 50% (just under) in terms of *area*

 

[retired]

BR IS EITHER 5 OR 10 and can be anything from 1 to 6 targets in a match, i have heard of 10's but i think it is ag's of several matches.

i am curious to ask what is the round count on the 1k BR matches vs the FClass 20rd with 3 relays or 4 if your feeling froggy. is it specific to heavy gun and light gun on the round count.

 

[memilanuk]

yes but no one shoots AREAS..WE SHOOT SCORE AND GROUPS. So not applicable to the SUBJECT.[/

Area is extremely relevant to shooting for score. Any place inside that *area* counts. It's why changing the X-ring on a HP LR target from 1 moa to 1/2 moa on an LR-FC made it one fourth the area, not just one half. It makes it much harder than the simple reduction in size would indicate at first glance.

 

[shoot4fun]

The 308 is very capable in the hands of the shooter who excels in wind reading. But then, I've heard it said many times that those who shoot 308 well are the best shooters.
I currently shoot the 185 Berger Hybrid ahead of a healthy dose of Alliant MR-2000, loaded in Lapua LP brass fired off by Federal Gold Medal Match primers. My barrel is 26" and 10 twist. This has proven to be a very capable load at 1,000 yards and has scored fairly well at 1,250 yards (longest distance I have access to). I have experimented with Lapua Scenar 155 and same powder. Results show promise but , as I still have a bunch of the Berger Hybrids, I have not pursued this load.
I can assure you that, as long as I own a rifle, I will own a 308. That is just (in my mind) the way it should be.