You might want to re-read it, only this time consider the word "sarcasm".......Mr. Smith and I were referring to the guy that posted and was siding with the manufacturers.
Scope Check
- Thread starter sdean
- Start date
You might want to re-read it, only this time consider the word "sarcasm".......Mr. Smith and I were referring to the guy that posted and was siding with the manufacturers.
What's funny is the inability of this esteemed crowd to understand the dynamics at play. Saw the Wheeler Engineering gizmo on the Brownells page today; guess it is the one Alex referred to? How many tools do you need to own to replace the 74-3333 boresighter with collimation grid? Evidently several. Got to have a level and a crosshair to align your reticle with. Does the barrel actually have to be "level"? Not really. Can a tapered barrel be "leveled" without a shim? Not really. Can a cross-bolted fastener on a tapered barrel be leveled without a shim or dual independent floating fasteners? Not really
But, it don't matter! You're looking for bore concentricity not scope to barrel level. Seems there might be a grid in the Wheeler gizmo, if not; suggest one as an upgrade. Of course, the complexity of the fastener mechanism and the independence of the leveling system are merely much greater complexities than necessary; but to the anal-retentive crowd that's a good thang! How's the barrel leveling tool work with a canted scope base or ring set? Don't matter, does it? There's no elevation gain if it's all level.
If we understand that mechanical systems, cannot be made "perfect"; how can we fail to grasp backlash and tension relief? There are no electronic sights of a telescopic nature which employ a non-holographic reticle. Is one such sight what the perfection crowd will have to embrace? Seemingly, but it will have drawbacks of its own, for man cannot make perfection.
With all the uncontrollable variables that effect bullet flight, I find it ludicrous to expect mechanical perfection when most users have no idea how to even approach it. If you don't know to relieve backlash; what else don't you know? Most don't even know to buy their own finish reamers for the "custom builds" they fund. What most shooters "know" these days is how to authorize a website purchase, and that if they spend XXX many dollars, they should get "quality" results. Of course that depends on who did the building, who made the ammo, and who's doing the shooting...
How many have ever measured their scope base for mount concentricity, or even thought it could be out? Lots of them are...
There are so many variables that must be controlled and understood to achieve routine precision and "accuracy" with the rifle, that in terms of commonality and most versatility, I have found the most essential tool to own, if utilizing telescopic sights, is the barrel spud mounted boresighter with integral-etched reference grid. The Bushnell 74-3333 has served me well. If one wishes to adapt it to external mount rather than spud use, it should be easily accomplished.
Regarding the dual pic-rail "scope checker" which appears to mount on another picatinny or weaver rail, it seems to create more questions than it solves.
Apologies, missed it.
He has no idea what it does or how it works. Matt
It's pretty simple though right? You take a rigid mount that holds both scopes parallel, fit a "constant" scope that is known to track and hold point of impact to one of the rails, then compare other scopes to it.
It's just like a simple science experiment where you compare the results of your "variable" condition (new scope) to the results of a "control" condition (known good scope) in a stable environment (scope checker device).
Am I missing something?
It's just like a simple science experiment where you compare the results of your "variable" condition (new scope) to the results of a "control" condition (known good scope) in a stable environment (scope checker device).
Am I missing something?
dmoran
Donovan Moran
+1 ..... no clue
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Raythemanroe
Bullet Whisperer
"Regarding the dual pic-rail "scope checker" which appears to mount on another picatinny or weaver rail, it seems to create more questions than it solves."
Ship one of those "scopes" to be tested.. Help resolve some questions I have...
Ray
Ship one of those "scopes" to be tested.. Help resolve some questions I have...
Ray
nakneker
Gold $$ Contributor
It seems no good deed goes unpunished. When a person takes their time, their money and invests for the benefits of others and their self, too often they get crap for it. My own opinion is if you don't like it formulate your own test and results. No need to criticise someone else's efforts. I think the test in question was appreciated by many of us. At the very least it gets you thinking, which is the point.
group therapy
Gold $$ Contributor
maybe "someone" is simply stirring the pot. used to work with a guy that would start a conversation about politics or religion amongst a group of people. when the talk got animated and heated, it never failed my friend was nowhere to be found. he stirred up a mess of folks and he was in his office laughing. at least i hope so, its a simple concept. 
Absolutely not an issue sir and no apology is needed...in fact I am glad for the opportunity to make sure what I wrote is not misconstrued and thank you.
Yeah, I agree. There's an old saying, "some people would complain if you hung them with a brand new rope..." Playing devils advocate and being a little skeptical about things is okay and probably a good thing sometimes, but the bottom line really is that you can play show and tell with somebody in an effort to help them get more knowledge, at the end of the day it's theirs to decide whether or not to learn something or stay stupid.
I have to say, I have been a member of this forum for a pretty good while now and this particular forum is one of the ones that I really have yet to see anyone purposely trying to steer others in a less than truthful way. I don't always agree with what some folks post, but I still don't believe it was posted with malice.
I don't get it Alex. What your doing is a simple process and some people just don't get it. Charlie's scope checker has been around for years and it's a simple process to execute. It's a simple tool for checking out POI, and some people make it out like it's some new invention that needs years worth of study to see if it works. It's not rocket science, wake up!
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I have a simple solution to the scope POI issue. Buy a freakin March or a Valdada and you won't need a scope checker. Case closed.
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
After what I saw, Im testing everything! LOL, I have no trust.
dmoran
Donovan Moran
Me neither, thanks to you ..... lol
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Tom made me do it haha
Alex Wheeler
Site $$ Sponsor
Most people do
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