Accuracy VS velocities

[Northridge]

I think we have some of Montana finest guns here . So far they haven't dominated .
lol. Larry

we need to know what it is we are trying to dominate in order to dominate yes? take" sumo wrestling" for instance I,m not sure how your built savagedasher? but I bet I can give you a run for your money LOl...

shawn williams

 

[savagedasher]

we need to know what it is we are trying to dominate in order to dominate yes? take" sumo wrestling" for instance I,m not sure how your built savagedasher? but I bet I can give you a run for your money LOl...

shawn williams

Wasn't this about shooting . Many can give me a run for my money .
At 77 I still like the challenge. lol Larry

 

[Alex Wheeler]

How many of ya'll have a winning 1000 yard rifle and shot it at 100 yards to see what the group looks like.
Anthony L

Maybe the second best shooting rifle I ever had set some agg records. We were with Williamsport then so there were not many 5 shot groups shot mostly 10s. The 6 match agg was 4.3" and 5.6" for the 10. It also shot my smallest 10 shot group ever of 3.5". However in my ladders which I used to keep the gun in tune before every match it shot quite a few mid to high 1s. The best was probably a 6 shot 1.6". but it was pretty routine to see mid to low 2s". I did shoot that one at 100 over flags quite a bit. That load would shoot mid .2s" at best. It never shot a .1". Could the rifle have been tuned to shoot smaller at 100? I am sure it could have. If you understand what positive compensation is, then you understand that you need some vertical at close range for optimum accuracy at long range. And since I have no way to calculate how much vertical I need at what range I have to shoot at 1k. Now, for long range rifle that needs to perform at every range from 0-1500 yds, I will tune closer and rely on ES. I know that I will not have optimum accuracy at any specific range, but good accuracy at every range.

So what most of this is about is, do you go with cone of dispersion or positive compensation? All the really small targets have positive compensation in their favor in my opinion. Because statistically, all variables taken into account, its impossible to shoot a 1s" at 1k, but its pretty common to see.

 

[Northridge]

mmmm... the smooth taste of motivation....

Alex, i think that is what jay wants some one to chase his ability, i suspect that drives him in some way to seek total focus. it is always good to have someone to pursue from the top of the ladder right? I'm with you Alex I hope we both can keep Jay on his toes in September...

Shawn Williams

 

[DT]

 

[BartsBullets]

@johara1 -@BartsBullets - @savagedasher
I would have assumed you 3 being a 100yd tuners/developera that you would have the ability to predict from those groups which one will have the worse vertical, the best vertical, and both the best and widest disperson's at 1000yd.
If you can't, how can you say or know at 100 what will happen at 1000?

Will be back online tonight after 10pm
Donovan

Donovan,

Seriously, there is nothing on your target that would indicate to me that your gun has a proper tune for any yardage. Group 1 is starting to come in IF it was shot at 200 yards.

If I walked up and looked at your target. I want to know what you had loaded. Did you go up on powder for each group were you changing seating depth? If you were changing powder loads each time. I'd Suggest changing your seating depth and try again.

Group 1 needs something
Group 2 same thing
Group 3 you either missed a condition or the guns too hot and popped a shot.
Group 4 looks like you shot in a push and then a reverse. Or the load is horribly wind sensitive.
Group 5 looks too hot.

These are 3 shot groups at 200 yards. Group 1 splattered
Group 2 increased powder but still not right.
Group 3 can't do any better at 200 yards. Probably a fluke!
Group 4 repeated same load as group 3. Load looks like it is working.

With those groups I am willing to make a prediction on dispersion. Now that may not be the load when I go rolling into the range, but that's where I'm going to start. I will normally be at the range in enough time to shoot and make corrections on the load if necessary.

So how's that working for ya Bart! Oh glad you asked!

2 Gun Finishes
Match 1. 2nd
Match 2. 10th
Match 3. 2nd
Match 4. 4th
Match 5. 2nd

I'm getting there!

 

[Dos XX]

There is another way. Just call one of us and get advice on what to spec the reamer, barrel length, and what bullets and powders to buy.

When it shoots good up closr with something that's been proven at 1000.... Then you should be within spitting distance!

Tom

This is how a lot of F/TR tuning is done. Most of us shoot the same bullets at almost the same velocity. With a .308 or .223, you are limited as you must have enough velocity to stay supersonic at target, and you can't get much faster than that because you will blow shit up.

 

[johara1]

@johara1 -@BartsBullets - @savagedasher
I would have assumed you 3 being a 100yd tuners/developera that you would have the ability to predict from those groups which one will have the worse vertical, the best vertical, and both the best and widest disperson's at 1000yd.
If you can't, how can you say or know at 100 what will happen at 1000?

Will be back online tonight after 10pm
Donovan

I guess I do it the same way the military does it with match rifles, guns have to pass a test at an underground range at 200 or less yards to be competitive up to a 1000. They believe in a cone of dispersion also...... it either shoots up close or it don't shoot at all. Jim

 

[Northridge]

I guess I do it the same way the military does it with match rifles, guns have to pass a test at an underground range at 200 or less yards to be competitive up to a 1000. They believe in a cone of dispersion also...... it either shoots up close or it don't shoot at all. Jim

That might be your problem Jim. Lol.. not seeing the forest through the trees... know one is disputing your ability to tune a rifle at 100 yards & I due not recommend military pro to call to proof a rifle relevant to this topic. by all means shoot military surplus ammo at matches your fellow contenders will thank you for it.

shawn williams

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Tune anyhow you want. Obviously it can be done many was. Not to call you out Jim but I think a lot of Shooters are in the same boat with find good barrels. I know you had trouble finding good barrels after the record one. I get calls often asking how many barrels a year I chamber for tom. They are usually suprised when I tell them about 2. I think you find a lot more good ones when you tune at the distance you want to shoot. Seems like it's harder to find one that won't win matches than one that will out here anyways. I don't remember ever hearing from Tom that one of his barrels never tuned up. Just more of my 2 cents

 

[johara1]

That might be your problem Jim. Lol.. not seeing the forest through the trees... know one is disputing your ability to tune a rifle at 100 yards & I due not recommend military pro to call to proof a rifle relevant to this topic. by all means shoot military surplus ammo at matches your fellow contenders will thank you for it.

shawn williams

I'm talking the big teams they test with specific lot of match ammo and it still boils down to the subject testing for long range up close not at 1000....... They are shot in a machine rest. ...jim

 

[Northridge]

I'm talking the big teams they test with specific lot of match ammo and it still boils down to the subject testing for long range up close not at 1000....... They are shot in a machine rest. ...jim

Jim do you compete in a tunnel? I'm guessing no... then why why why to say that you do?

do you shoot out of a machine rest? then why why why JIM....

YOUR NOT BEING FAIR TO YOURSELF.... I would hate to shoot next to you if you actual dabbled further out. you would likely clean up....

Shawn Williams

big teams little teams it really does not matter

 

[BartsBullets]

Hey Tom!!! @tom

 

[Northridge]

Hey Tom!!! @tom

Bart you are handy!!! Lol poor little fella doesn't even know he's headed for lung disease...

 

[Jay Christopherson]

You better teach him how to chase that spotter!

Tom

chasing the spotter is easy, as long as you never leave the X-ring! ;-)

 

[Jay Christopherson]

Alex, i think that is what jay wants some one to chase his ability, i suspect that drives him in some way to seek total focus. it is always good to have someone to pursue from the top of the ladder right? I'm with you Alex I hope we both can keep Jay on his toes in September...

Shawn Williams

people chasing me is not the problem. figuring out what the hell it is I did to place well recently and how to keep doing it is the head scratcher...

 

[Northridge]

chasing the spotter is easy, as long as you never leave the X-ring! ;-)

nicely said jay

the method by definition "chasing the spotter" really is transposed...or maybe i am confused again Lol

 

[jamesdmock]

Which load would you choose for a 100/200 yd match? WHY?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

.005 off 54 clicks. Doesn't break out on either side and the groups print at the same height on the target. But I have yet to compete and win at a high level in 100/200 so I would ask you or Bart's advice on the subject.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I'd keep them at 5 off and come on the forums and ask wtf a "ckick" is

Tom

I think a click = 1/8 teaspoon.