Your Stainless Steel Media Tumbling times...
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bigedp51
jlow said:
I used the steel cartridge cases and sand to remove the sharp ends of the stainless steel pins. The sand and steel cases were shit canned, the drum was cleaned out, and the pins were washed, BEFORE the next batch of brass cases were tumbled with the now dull pins.
P.S. I'm not brain dead and I have been reloading for over 45 years.
No need to get mad or be rude, we can only see what you post and if you don’t declare what you have written here with your previous message, you cannot blame others for not taking what they don’t know into account. It’s the posters responsibility to be clear if he does not want to be misunderstood.bigedp51 said:jlow said:
I used the steel cartridge cases and sand to remove the sharp ends of the stainless steel pins. The sand and steel cases were shit canned, the drum was cleaned out, and the pins were washed, BEFORE the next batch of brass cases were tumbled with the now dull pins.
P.S. I'm not brain dead and I have been reloading for over 45 years.
On to the technical side, to me at least, I don’t understand the rationale for removing the sharp ends of the stainless steel pins. The sharp edges are used to scratch off the carbon which has been softened by the water soap combo. AKAIK, they don’t contribute to the peening.
bigedp51
jlow
If you thought my post was rude you should have been here when I read your post.
WHO in their right mind would put sand in or anywhere near their dies or apply it to soft brass cartridge cases.
I believe here and in other forums people were complaining about what I have pictured in my first post. It was thought that many of us received a bad batch of pins with overly sharp ends and this was doing the damage to the cases. The ends of the pins looked like they were cut with a set of diagonal cutters and had sharp ends like knife blades.
You do NOT need sharp ends on the pins to RUB the cases clean, if you would have looked at the link I posted for the higher quality media you would have seen what I was talking about.
Do the high quality stainless pins below look like they have sharp knife blade ends on them? Do these pins look like they would scratch and gouge cartridge cases like I have pictured above.
P.S. Your speed reading ability sucks.
If you thought my post was rude you should have been here when I read your post.
WHO in their right mind would put sand in or anywhere near their dies or apply it to soft brass cartridge cases.
I believe here and in other forums people were complaining about what I have pictured in my first post. It was thought that many of us received a bad batch of pins with overly sharp ends and this was doing the damage to the cases. The ends of the pins looked like they were cut with a set of diagonal cutters and had sharp ends like knife blades.
You do NOT need sharp ends on the pins to RUB the cases clean, if you would have looked at the link I posted for the higher quality media you would have seen what I was talking about.
Do the high quality stainless pins below look like they have sharp knife blade ends on them? Do these pins look like they would scratch and gouge cartridge cases like I have pictured above.
P.S. Your speed reading ability sucks.
OK, we now know that you are a hot head, anything else you want us to know? :-X
As to who in the right mind would use sand, there is of course the well know story of people who use a sandblaster to clean their spark plugs? The point here is if there is a tool, there is someone out there who will use it inappropriately. Please note that I did not put any insult in my OP, only to suggest that sand might be detrimental to dies.
But seriously, of course the ends of the pins are sharp, what does one expect? These are made in mass production and cut as you suggested. The question is considering the extreme light weight of the pins and the resistance to movement by the water, what damage could these do? If you have additional post that explains this, please post a link.
As to who in the right mind would use sand, there is of course the well know story of people who use a sandblaster to clean their spark plugs? The point here is if there is a tool, there is someone out there who will use it inappropriately. Please note that I did not put any insult in my OP, only to suggest that sand might be detrimental to dies.
But seriously, of course the ends of the pins are sharp, what does one expect? These are made in mass production and cut as you suggested. The question is considering the extreme light weight of the pins and the resistance to movement by the water, what damage could these do? If you have additional post that explains this, please post a link.
bigedp51
jlow said:
Nothing other than the fact that in any school yard you will find children with learning disabilities that have problems understanding how things work. If a child looks at the damaged cartridge case photos below and can't comprehend the problem then that child belongs in special education.
bigedp51 said:jlow said:
Nothing other than the fact that in any school yard you will find children with learning disabilities that have problems understanding how things work. If a child looks at the damaged cartridge case photos below and can't comprehend the problem then that child belongs in special education.
Sorry, but your condescension is a little irritating. When you couple that with a closed mind-------
I use Stainless Steel media to clean and polish (burnish) my cases with none of the damage you have pictured. It sure looks like it's caused by something far heavier, with more mass, than merely stainless pins. You certainly are entitled to your opinion, just as I am to mine. Mine is that you are blaming the stainless pins when you have a far different problem. Frankly, it looks like you tumbled the cases with NO media whatever and they just bounced off each other. If not that, then too many cases for the amount of pin media.
Thanks amlevin. Here are questions for bigedp51 to contemplate?
You are assuming any “damage†to the brass is caused by the SS media but how did these pieces of brass look when they were new? This is what those of us who work in the scientific area call “baselineâ€. Without baseline, you are just flying blind when trying to figure out if something you see is damaged by a process.
If you want to convince us that there is significant damage by the pins, start with brand new pieces of brass. Take photos of them, measure their diameter carefully with something that can reproducibly measure in the 0.0001â€. Run the brass through the media multiple times and document a consistent and significant change in surface property and diameter. Then come back and show us your evidence.
As Amlevin has already said, there are lots of people including myself who have used SS media on pieces of brass over many cleaning cycles and have not notice any significant damage other than the peening – why is this?
You are assuming any “damage†to the brass is caused by the SS media but how did these pieces of brass look when they were new? This is what those of us who work in the scientific area call “baselineâ€. Without baseline, you are just flying blind when trying to figure out if something you see is damaged by a process.
If you want to convince us that there is significant damage by the pins, start with brand new pieces of brass. Take photos of them, measure their diameter carefully with something that can reproducibly measure in the 0.0001â€. Run the brass through the media multiple times and document a consistent and significant change in surface property and diameter. Then come back and show us your evidence.
As Amlevin has already said, there are lots of people including myself who have used SS media on pieces of brass over many cleaning cycles and have not notice any significant damage other than the peening – why is this?
bigedp51
And YOU said something about condescension................
I didn't tumble the cases in the dryer and let them fall two feet, they were in the tumbler buffered by water and were sloshed around. Do you think the cases caused the gouges and long scratches in the cases.
After the pins were tumbled with sand and Wolf steel cartridge cases the sharp ends of the pins were abraded down and the problem never occurred again. As I stated before several people posted this problem in forums so I'm not the only one that had this problem with a bad batch of the pins.
These cases were range pickups after our local Swat Teams practiced and I came home with three five gallon buckets of .223/5.56 brass. These cases were washed in hot soapy water and then cleaned with a home made brass cleaner solution of 1 quart of water, 1 cup white vinegar, 1/2 cup lemon juice, 1/4 cup dish washing detergent, 1/8 cup salt. Some time later they were tumbled using the stainless steel pins.
And now the sand in the resizing die man wants scientific test data!!!!!
"The ends of Techbuff Cylinders, Diagonals and Pins are well deburred and radiused to access holes, recesses, corners and intricate designs providing proper polishing and cleaning without spoiling the component surface."
http://www.steelmedia.com/satellites-pins.htm
What is so hard to understand that these pins had extremely sharp ends and were scratching the brass.
bigedp51
markm87 said:
Under magnification what does the end of your pins look like?
I also bought the tumbler and pins from StainlessSteelMedia.com BUT they are NOT the ones who make the pins. And I'm not sure if they get all their pins from the same vendor.
bigedp51
amlevin said:
Anything is possible, the brass was range pickup BUT I assumed the brass was new because I saw the Swat Teams loading their ARs. The cases could have had these defects before I picked them up and been recycled and reloaded practice ammo. It might have been something I did wrong and thats why I posted photos and asked questions. The photos are closeup macro and everything is visible to the naked eye when seen enlarged.
The photos below are again closeup macro and make the Remington 700 bolt look like a beaver chewed out the bolt face recess, so don't try and blame me for this.
Bradley Walker
Did you contact the vendor of the pins to see if they could resolve the issue or if there had been other complaints? I am curious.
I bought mine off of Ebay.
I bought mine off of Ebay.
bigedp51
Bradley Walker said:
I did not contact the vendor and chose to remove the sharp ends and burs myself.
My wife and I also make silver jewelry and they are cleaned and polished with the smooth rounded pins pictured in a dry vibrating tumbler.
I asked in my first post about peening and posted the photos to show what the cases looked like. To the naked eye most of us would never even see these dents, scratches and defects.
If all of you have cut pins with sharp ends then I'm worrying about nothing and should keep my camera out of the shop reloading room and just take photos of people putting sand in their reloading dies.
I also might be a little cranky because I now have an AR 15 that throws perfectly good brass away and makes me go hunting for it. :'(
Bradley Walker
bigedp51 said:
Cut one coil off the ejector spring. The brass will fall right next to you in a little pile....
Bradley Walker
bigedp51 said:
Holy crap!!!
bigedp51
I have a .223 bolt action with a 26 inch heavy barrel that see nothing but brand new brass, and I prep this brass lovingly.
The AR 15 is another story, it chews up and spits the brass out and wont let me kiss and fondle each empty fired case. :
The range brass was too much to pass up, the walk to the 50 yard targets looked like the yellow brick road and was easy picking.
Brass to the right of me,
Brass to the left of me,
Boldly I picked and well,
Into the jaws of brass hell,
Rode the pack rat who did well.
The subject is tumbling times and I asked if your brass looks like the one I have pictured.
The AR 15 is another story, it chews up and spits the brass out and wont let me kiss and fondle each empty fired case. :
The range brass was too much to pass up, the walk to the 50 yard targets looked like the yellow brick road and was easy picking.
Brass to the right of me,
Brass to the left of me,
Boldly I picked and well,
Into the jaws of brass hell,
Rode the pack rat who did well.
The subject is tumbling times and I asked if your brass looks like the one I have pictured.
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