Your opinion: Best Carbon Remover

[dreever]

I decided to start a new thread since I think this subject warrants one. What do you use to remove carbon? I've seen KG1, Slip 2000, MPro7, Butchs Bore Shine, Shooters Choice/Kroil, TM Solution, etc. etc. etc. mentioned. But what really works? Have you bore scoped to prove your results?

Danny

 

[AlNyhus]

After cleaning normally:

J.B. thoroughly rubbed into a patch and wrapped around a worn bronze brush.

10-15 full strokes, taking care not to let the brush completely exit the muzzle before bringing it back. After each full stroke, half a dozen shorter strokes for the first 5"-6", then repeat.

Clean the bore guide and rod thoroughly, then run 3-4 sloppy wet patches (Butch's) down, then brush with a new sloppy wet bronze brush for 10-12 strokes and patch dry.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[40X Guy]

I had an issue with carbon fouling last summer in one of my rifles before I bought my borescope. I found after some study that JB as already mentioned and Hollands Witches Brew got the carbon out of my barrel quite well. and it returned to shooting the way it did. This happened after only 160 some rounds and only cleaning with Wipe Out and no brushing, I threw the Wipe Out away and stocked up on bronze brushes and have not had a problem since. I feel that any liquid solvents will not get that hard carbon fouling out. You need to go after it aggressively.

Frank

 

[dreever]

What about all the new liquids on the market? What are you guys having success with, if any?

 

[GerryM]

Most of the solvents work pretty well but really don't get all of the carbon and copper out. They do a good job of helping to prevent buildup but don't take all of the fouling out. Even the foams and others that yo leave in for 24 hrs or more.
A combination of solvents used with JB or Iosso get the bore squeek clean.
You can see the differance in thee bore scope..

 

[dreever]

I've always been leary of the abrasives like JB. Seems to me it's like putting sand in your barrel.

 

[280man]

I personally don't worry about getting every last bit of carbon or copper out. I'm pretty sure its right back in there after I fire one round. I have found Boretech Elimanator to do a sufficient job day in and day out. I do use Remington 40X cleaner about every 3-4 hundred rounds on a patch and wore out brush. About 10 strokes normally does it and then a few wet patches of Bortech to get all that stuff out. Before I used any abrasive cleaner on a premium barrel I would call the manufacture and ask them. Some of them do not approve of JB or Iosso and it will void any potential warranty.

 

[Rock Knocker]

I do all of my cleaning with Butch's bore shine.

First i put one or two really wet patches down the barrel followed by a dry patch then a nylon brush with as much butchs on it as possible back and forth maybe 15-20 times then I let is sit for a hour, follow that with a dry patch. Repeat as nessesary.

I found that using a dry patch to get out all of the dirty solvent works better than sending just another wet patch down, the wet patch seams to just spread things out where i dry patch sucks up and removes the crud.

I used to use Sweets to clean up the copper but once i started letting it soak with butchs it was never needed.

I dont know if it cleans a dirty throat out that well, but it has kept it from ever being a problem for me.

 

[GerryM]

If you use the iosso and Jb properly there is no problem.
Jb is non imbeding. Iosso come out rather easily with some solvent and clean patchs.
Really used properly there is little to worrry about.
If you have a bore scope you can tell whats happening. The throat will wear out way quicker then anything else. The jb will help smooth out throat errosien in many cases and improve accurary. I would worry more about copper and especially carbon build up.
That will knock the edge off way quicker then a little Jb or iosso
Some barrels makers don't like it because of the miss use of the products.

 

[artbosco]

What do you use to remove carbon? ... what really works?

JB BORE CLEANING COMPOUND!

Comments on JB Paste and abrasives by two well known sources:

"I personally believe in the use of JB Bore Cleaner... I use it after every yardage. 3 to 5 tight fitting patches with JB will get the powder fouling out... I do a full cleaning before I use JB and also after I use JB, to make certain I've got all the JB out of the barrel. ... Tony Boyer"

Source: The Benchrest Shooting Primer, ON THE TOPIC OF BARRELS, by Tony Boyer, Page 349, upper left.
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Krieger Barrels Inc,: Q&A

Q: Will a paste-type bore cleaner such as J.B. hurt a barrel during cleaning?

A: No. There is nothing that we can find that shows that it will harm the barrel provided you use a rod guide and refrain from exiting the muzzle.
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Instructions received from Krieger along with my Krieger barrel: Break-In and Cleaning, Under Cleaning:

"Abrasive cleaners work well. They do not damage the bore, they clean all types of fouling (copper, powder, lead, plastic), and they have the added advantage of of polishing the throat both in 'break in' and later on when the throat begins to roughen again from the rounds fired. One national champion we know polishes the throats on his rifles every several hundred rounds or so with diamond paste to extend their accuracy life."
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Most people worry about copper; they should be worrying about carbon. How do you find the carbon ring?

1. Pull a NYLON bore brush back through the bore, from muzzle to breech.
2. You'll feel lots of resistance on the rod when it hits the carbon build-up.
3. That's where you need to scrub with JB paste.

And don't forget the area at the the end of the neck chamber!

 

[Matt Pitchon]

Clearly everyone has an opinion on this, and many approaches work.

I start with Bore Tech Eliminator to get out the copper and most of the carbon. I use a nylon brush, one size larger. I let it soak for 30 minutes or so. I follow it with Bore Tech Carbon Remover and brush. More carbon comes out with patches soaked with Carbon Remover. Eventually, the patches are clean and a dry patch will 'drag', at which point its clean.

I have used JB / IOSSO and both work, and do not appear to harm the bore. Its just more work. The abrasive approach doesn't seem to get out anymore carbon than the liquid Carbon Remover.

To answer your question directly, Bore Tech Carbon Remover. I haven't used the others.

 

[jonbearman]

I use Mercury power tune. You can get it at any Mercury outboard dealer for about 10.00 bucks a can and it lasts a long time. I soak it for a couple hours and then brush with a nylon brush.

 

[Geronimo Jim]

It is really important to tell us if you are able to check your results with a borescope.

 

[GerryM]

The bore scope tells a lot about the condition of the barrel.
Washing of the lands and cleaning. It may be important to some and others not.
If your a traget or tach shooter then it become more important. Varmint hunters too.
The condition of the bore usually Tells a lot about the accuracy you can expect, from the barrel, Thats if you Know what your looking for. Hawkeye gives a free video out on it bore sopes. It's worth watching.

 

[w123driver]

Automotive injector & carb cleaner works fine for me. It is a mixture of acetone and white gasoline, formulated to free remove carbonized deposits from fuel injectors and throttle body. Smokeless powder burn byproduct is the same stuff. I spray it liberally into receiver and throat and clean with patches. If I need th get rid of cooper fouling, I treat the bore with Sweet's. I always finish with preserving of metal by running wet patch Ed's red. (mixture of equal vollumetric parts of kerosene, mineral spirit, acetone and automatic transmission fluid). Ed's red is great for cleaning as well. If the barrel is not very dirty I use Ed's red for both cleaning and preserving.

 

[dogdude]

the best carbon remover SOLUTION is called HAWKEYE!!!

 

[flatlander]

In my experience, it depends on how severe the carbon fouling is, and to an extent, how long the barrel has been shot with carbon fouling present in the throat. I've seen Slip 2000 remove 'soft' carbon in a new bbl. very quickly, while it took 3 days of soaking, brushing, & J-B applications to get to the bottom of layered carbon & copper fouling in an AR bbl. that'd been shot all season using just wet patching (no brushing) to clean. I'd have probably given up on the AR bbl. if I hadn't had a Hawkeye borescope to show me what was going on in the throat of that bbl. Once I finally got down to bare metal in the AR, it shot as well as it had when new, which was quite good.

I don't borescope everytime I clean anymore, but rather use the 'scope to check when I get a lot of copper indication on patches after soaking overnight with Shooters Choice. I'll usually check the throat for carbon after checking the muzzle for copper - if there's enough carbon in the throat to worry about, I'll apply IOSSO bore paste to a patch wrapped around a nylon bore brush and work it over. Doesn't take long at all to remove all traces of carbon - in comparison to other liquid & abrasives I've tried, I believe IOSSO takes it out with significantly less time & effort. I do like to use a nylon brush one size smaller than normal (eg- 22 brush for 6mm bbls), as it's plenty tight enough to get into the corners of the lands & grooves, yet is easier to push/pull through the bore without bending/bowing the cleaning rod.

 

[fdshuster]

Rock Knocker: I agree with your use of Butch's for powder fouling removal, the easiest type to clean out, and for soaking with Butch's to remove the copper. My method & brand of solvent exactly, but, Butch's will do nothing to remove the baked on carbon. For that, as verified with my borescope, the only solution is JB bore paste. IOSSO is also an almost identical product, favored by one of our well known premier rifle builders who also happens to be a big winner in the benchrest match's. He mentioned to me that JB & IOSSO are close to being the same. Accumulated carbon is a persistant problem that most tend to ignore, until nasty signs of high pressure begin to show up ( blown primers are common), and/or accuracy goes into the toilet. I gotta wonder how many otherwise excellent barrels have been replaced due to poor accuracy when the only problem was a buildup of carbon fouling.

 

[queen_stick]

Rock Knocker: I agree with your use of Butch's for powder fouling removal, the easiest type to clean out, and for soaking with Butch's to remove the copper. My method & brand of solvent exactly, but, Butch's will do nothing to remove the baked on carbon. For that, as verified with my borescope, the only solution is JB bore paste. IOSSO is also an almost identical product, favored by one of our well known premier rifle builders who also happens to be a big winner in the benchrest match's. He mentioned to me that JB & IOSSO are close to being the same. Accumulated carbon is a persistant problem that most tend to ignore, until nasty signs of high pressure begin to show up ( blown primers are common), and/or accuracy goes into the toilet. I gotta wonder how many otherwise excellent barrels have been replaced due to poor accuracy when the only problem was a buildup of carbon fouling.

Frank, I know this question depends on a a lot of things, but I'm curious what your thoughts are on it. How often do you use JB or Iosso? Is there a general round-count interval that you could verify with your scope? For example every 250 rounds, or 500 rounds?

 

[fdshuster]

Walt: I'm certainly no expert on the subject, just know what works for me as verified with the 'scope, but a lot will depend on the powder used. One of the reasons I favor VihtaVuori: it burns so clean, also verified by the really clean case necks as they come out of the chamber. So with VV in the BR's and PPC's it may take 2 or 300 rds. fired before I see some carbon, and then will only require 10 to 15 strokes with JB to remove most of it. I'm not concerned with removing it all, just want to keep it under control and there are never fouling shots required for the barrel to settle down. Varget is a little dirtier and with it a light JB cleaning will be about every 150 to 175 rds. fired. I know which powders are heavy carbon foulers & will not use them. It also seems to depend on which barrel. A few seem to carbon less, others more, and that can also happen with barrels of the same make. Does not seem to matter if they are cut or buttoned rifled. The important thing for me is that I'm able to keep on top of it, something not possible without a borescope. One of the reasons I say it is my most valuable tool.