Worst powders for hard carbon fouling?

[fatelvis]

I have been reading a lot lately about hard, encrusted carbon that gets deposited in some bores. Also, I have read that some powders are more prone to this than others. Can anyone enlighten me as to what powders deposit this and may be problematic because of this? I’m asking because I don’t own a borescope, and rely on my patches to tell me when the bore is clean. The unknown is killing me! Lol
Thank you

 

[retired]

using to low of a load with almost any powder will result in high carbon build up.
it is about selecting a powder that produces a high enough pressure to produce a clean burn.

 

[Jeff A]

<Snip[>I’m asking because I don’t own a borescope, and rely on my patches to tell me when the bore is clean. The unknown is killing me! Lol
Thank you

Sooner or later you are going to have to accept the fact that you are never going to know the answer to this question and many others including "Is my bore clean" until you own a bore scope.

 

[CharlieNC]

Without a bore scope you are fooled by the shiny lands which are easy to clean. Carbon in the grooves requires a scope to detect; I have a cheap $20 Amazon endoscope that reveals the truth. Mega passes with a wire brush finally led to success.

 

[gpoldblue]

I have been reading a lot lately about hard, encrusted carbon that gets deposited in some bores. Also, I have read that some powders are more prone to this than others. Can anyone enlighten me as to what powders deposit this and may be problematic because of this? I’m asking because I don’t own a borescope, and rely on my patches to tell me when the bore is clean. The unknown is killing me! Lol
Thank you

I have found ,by using a borescope,that H335 and Varget do leave significant carbon fouling even with frequent cleaning using Patch-Out products every 15-20 rounds. I have used H322,AA 2015,VV 133,and LT-32 in my PPC's and .223's with very little carbon fouling. I don't know if any other powders are so prone. Cleaning this carbon out can be labor intensive. It's better to clean frequently to help prevent this.
I highly recommend a borescope even though they are expensive. I know it's hard to lay out $900,but
clean patches alone don't tell the story.
Good luck. Dan

 

[retired]

for those of you that insist on scrubbing with wire brushes, may i suggest you save your shoulder and invest in a PROVEN carbon cleaner. gm tec use to be the best( i still have some), subaru may still make a tec( i have some) and mercury outboards still has an outboard tec. all PROVEN carbon cleaners.

 

[500Stroker]

I have been reading a lot lately about hard, encrusted carbon that gets deposited in some bores. Also, I have read that some powders are more prone to this than others. Can anyone enlighten me as to what powders deposit this and may be problematic because of this? I’m asking because I don’t own a borescope, and rely on my patches to tell me when the bore is clean. The unknown is killing me! Lol
Thank you

Use JB Bore Bright regularly and dont worry about it.

 

[Ned Ludd]

It's not solely the type/brand of powder, it's also how efficiently you're burning it.

 

[CaptainMal]

The users of the 6 BR case and all the variants on that case - from 22-30 cal BR's seem to have an exasperating issue with carbon fouling. Powders used most often are things like Varget, H4895 Rel 15, Rel 17, H4350, IMR 4166 and maybe a few others. It is a very noticeable issue with the BR case and does require some serious cleaning. Other calipers do not seem to have such a reoccurring and frustrating carbon issue as often as those using the BR case.

The solution ( pun) is Bore Tech C4 Carbon Remover or Bore Tech Eliminator, which also does a job on copper. Other solvents may work to some degree but these work well. You literally MUST use a brass brush, soak, scrub, soak and scrub. Sometimes it also takes "short stroking" that brush from chamber to about 4" into the bore. That's where the serious carbon fouling seems to stick.

Other "tricks" are to take a solvent like Hoppes #9. After normal cleaning with brushing, fill the bore or somehow let it soak for a day or so with that solvent in it. Then brush it out. That also seems to work and is a common habit the BR benchrest shooters use to deal with the mess.

If you have a problem it will show up as high pressure signs with your cases. Obviously you should have a borescope and watch what is going on. If you can't watch then just clean reasonable and don't be afraid to use a hard brush.

 

[1shot]

Cleaning the bore as soon as possible will go a long way to keeping carbon in check. Running a couple solvent soaked patches through the bore while it’s hot and the carbon is soft makes for a lot less work over the long run.

Lloyd

 

[johnfred1965]

I read on this website in one of the articles on finding the "carbon ring" in a barrel. Back before everyone NEEDED a borescope, pull a NYLON brush from the muzzle toward the chamber and FEEL for it to get more snug. That is where to concentrate your efforts with JB or your preferred carbon cleaner.

I found where I read this: The 6.5X284 cartridge guide. Also covers the post about reversing a brush in the barrel.

"How do you find the carbon ring? Here's what John Brewer does. He pulls a NYLON bore brush back through the bore, from muzzle towards the breech. It moves smoothly until it hits the carbon build-up where you'll feel lots of resistance on the rod. That's where you need to scrub with Iosso paste or JB. NOTE: we do NOT advise reversing a phosphor bronze brush through the bore. And NEVER short-stroke with a tight-fitting bronze brush!"

 

[johnfred1965]

Sometimes it also takes "short stroking" that brush from chamber to about 4" into the bore.

I have heard a lot of advice on cleaning barrels from a lot of people, but it is almost universally agreed to NEVER reverse a metallic brush inside the bore. You can short stroke with a patch and jag but not a brush.

 

[BoydAllen]

Fellows, these discussions always get muddied up by people calling common powder fouling carbon. I believe that the fellow asked about hard carbon. While it starts out as simple powder fouling, pressure and heat change it into something that I do not believe any liquid cleaner will remove. The trick is to determine the number of rounds that you can fire before something like IOSSO is needed. If the question is about common powder fouling, yes, some powders leave more of it behind than others. Generally, I have found that lower pressure loads result in more. The cleanest rifle powder that I am aware of is VV 133. One other related issue here is fellows not throwing their brushes away often enough. Buy them by the dozen and considerable them to be disposable.

 

[Raythemanroe]

Without a bore scope you are fooled by the shiny lands which are easy to clean. Carbon in the grooves requires a scope to detect; I have a cheap $20 Amazon endoscope that reveals the truth. Mega passes with a wire brush finally led to success.

Many being 6 or 1k?

Ray

 

[Raythemanroe]

I have heard a lot of advice on cleaning barrels from a lot of people, but it is almost universally agreed to NEVER reverse a metallic brush inside the bore. You can short stroke with a patch and jag but not a brush.

I wouldn't, don't know why you would want to either..

Ray

 

[urbanrifleman]

This is Walt Berger's cleaning method for moly barrels. I shoot moly, but I find it works for all barrels. I no longer use Kroil, I use Super Slick from Lowes, and I use Bore tech Eliminator not Butch's. But I JB paste every cleaning. I have never had a carbon ring.

1. Push one wet patch with Kroil Oil through the barrel.
2. Repeat Step 1.
3. Push one dry patch through the barrel.
4. Repeat Step 3.
5. Push one wet patch with Butch's Bore Shine through the barrel.
6. Repeat Step 5.
7. Let soak for five to ten minutes.
8. Push one dry patch through the barrel.
9. Repeat Step 8.
10. Short stroke one patch with USP Bore Paste through the barrel.
11. Push one patch wet with Kroil Oil through the barrel.
12. Repeat Step 11 twice.
13. Push one dry patch through the barrel.
14. Repeat Step 13 three times.
15. Use bore scope or visually check muzzle to insure barrel is free from copper fouling.
16. If inspection shows copper fouling still in barrel, repeat Steps 10 through 14.
17. If rifle is to be placed in storage, push one patch wet with a good grade of gun oil through the barrel.

 

[johnfred1965]

Ray: I don't either, just commenting on someone who suggested it.
Boyd: I understand your comment about "normal" carbon fouling. In normal cases, I have found it the worst with powders using high amounts of Graphite as a burn rate retardant.

 

[retired]

lol your name says a lot

stroker!

Use JB Bore Bright regularly and dont worry about it.

 

[gme]

of the powders I use H1000 leaves the most carbon fouling

 

[urbanrifleman]

I said it before but after messing with N160 I am going to N140 or N150 for my R15 uses in the future. These n1XX VV powders just don't leave much carbon at all....