Wind: Holding off vertically

[Brians356]

Question for serious BR score and group competitors:

What approximate percentage of the time have you held off high or low to adjust for a perceived wind condition?
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[CaptainMal]

If the wind condition is significant - 100% of the time.

 

[Brad Johnson]

If your lucky try to sight it in when its calm to get your zero, Then like CaptainMal said about 100 % of the time

 

[Brians356]

If your lucky try to sight it in when its calm to get your zero, Then like CaptainMal said about 100 % of the time

Does that equally apply to both group and score shooting?
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[Brad Johnson]

Yes

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

As a general rule, I think vertical holdoff in a crosswind is worth about 1/3rd of horizontal. But yes, as others have said..holding dead on in either direction is a rarity.

 

[Greyfox]

IME-changes in vertical hold have more to do with changes in light, cloud cover, etc. than wind conditions. A day that has clouds frequently moving across the sun will change POI a bullet hole or so @ 100 yards.

Rick

 

[Tim Singleton]

Definitely have to allow for the vertical component of the crosswind. Missed a let up you can see how high the group formed for the first 4 shots. 200yds
Tried to run em and couldn’t put on the brakes when it let up

 

[INShooter]

Wind always has a vertical component. Your job as the shooter is to judge which way and how much.

 

[Mulligan]

Wind always has a vertical component. Your job as the shooter is to judge which way and how much.

And, I have to admit, I am a complete failure at this!
CW

 

[cheek9075]

If you ever hold on the chigger you are not Zeroed, that's what I always hear! Is there ever a true zero? Wind is always doing something, even if flags are calm I think. I would rather shoot with a wind and hold off instead of still flags. I think depending on wind direction, you will have to hold off horizontal and vertical, depending. Can you even get a true vertical zero with 1/8inch clicks in scope? I would rather have to zero scope and hold low instead of high, just my 2 cents.

 

[Brians356]

Myself I’m not as serious as others also in training here and far from an expert. It just depends on the direction ,speed and value of the wind effecting my Bullets point of impact. I shoot more consistent groups using clicks vs hold over so there’s that. Below is a chart I’ve been working with that’s pretty darn helpful for a single but doesn’t cover a second influencing wind. Anyway for me it’s not a matter of high or low it’s a matter of finding the condition I want and shoot my condition.
Also as soon as I get it figured out it changes.
Hope that’s not too cryptic
J

Here's a version of that graphic that arranges the wind points as a clock, but more importantly suggests some shorter displacement vectors, for example 12:00 and 6:00 put the bullet much closer to POA. (Note: specific to right-twist barrel.)


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[Brians356]

@brians356
What’s your technique

WRT vertical I don't have one - yet.
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[CubCouper]

Yet another version of the graphic ... I needed to see my flags...

 

[Greyfox]

Folks who don't own or use wind flags have trouble grasping the fact that in many places, here for example, it is unusual for four flags at 100 yards to all be doing the same thing. It's not uncommon at our range for all four to be doing something different. The sensible thing is to wait for all to be going the same direction, but time won't always allow that. What most of us do is to determine what the flags look like, shoot a sighter or five and determine where to hold. Probably goes without saying, but this can only be successful with a truly accurate rifle. If your rifle is only capable of 1/2 MOA your chances of determining a good hold on a 1/16" dot are diminished at best.

YMMV,
Rick

 

[rardoin]

These charts work on a 'perfect range'....one that is flat with no obstructions causing turbulence in a crosswind. This describes absolutely no range I shoot at (600-1000yds) (except the center targets at Ben Avery perhaps). Elevated firing lines, side protection berms, rise/fall of ground across trajectory, stands of trees lining the range all can and do affect vertical impact of shots in my experience. The charts are a great place to start but local knowledge of a particular range's peculiarities can really saves one's bacon in a match. Also, as Greyfox noted, lighting conditions can wreak havoc on a score if not payed attention to. I've witnessed a minute of vertical change as the sun peeked through the trees at Panola (600 yds) in the late evening. We thought the scope was broken. Saw the same thing happen the next year but were ready for it.

 

[Rope2horns]

The charts are a great place to start but local knowledge of a particular ranges peculiarities can really saves one's bacon in a match.

I agree with Robin.....I think different ranges show different things based on the terrain. Some ranges are much more prone to elevation changes with pickups/letoffs/direction changes than others. That said I'm terrible at figuring this out.

 

[rardoin]

...snip.... That said I'm terrible at figuring this out.

Me too...but sometimes even a blind hog finds an acorn or two.

 

[Bamban]

These charts work on a 'perfect range'....one that is flat with no obstructions causing turbulence in a crosswind. This describes absolutely no range I shoot at (600-1000yds) (except the center targets at Ben Avery perhaps). Elevated firing lines, side protection berms, rise/fall of ground across trajectory, stands of trees lining the range all can and do affect vertical impact of shots in my experience. The charts are a great place to start but local knowledge of a particular range's peculiarities can really saves one's bacon in a match. Also, as Greyfox noted, lighting conditions can wreak havoc on a score if not payed attention to. I've witnessed a minute of vertical change as the sun peeked through the trees at Panola (600 yds) in the late evening. We thought the scope was broken. Saw the same thing happen the next year but were ready for it.

In this case, which vertical direction did POI go when sun peeked through the trees?

Back in the iron sight days of service rifle shooting, the old saying, "light up, sights up, light down, sights down" applied to most shooters, but not all. I wonder if the same directional change applies to optical sights.

 

[rardoin]

Bamban, at this range in the late afternoon in November the sun is blocked by tall pines on the South edge of the range. About 4:15-4:30 the sun pierces through a gap in the canopy and comes straight down the barrel of the scope for about 5-8 minutes then is blocked by the canopy after that. My shooter was shooting x's and inner 10's and I was making 1/2 to 1 ring of hold off calls (no vertical adjustments needed in the very light winds) and a shot hits in the mid to upper nine ring (high). Sun gets brighter and I have him dial out .5 minutes of elevation hedging my bet between a flier and something 'out there'. Next shot was either high 10 or inner 9...don't recall. Dial down another .5 minutes...sun disappears...next shot is 1 minute low in the inner 9 ring. This was before I even considered that that blinding sun was an issue so I assumed the NF scope had taken a dump. Shooter's dad offered his rifle the next day but suggested that the sun was the issue because he and his teammate saw that trainwreck coming and held fire until the range was 'dark' again and did not drop a point. My shooter wisely listened to his pop, kept shooting the same rifle the next day, and shot clean the remainder of the match. I really learned a lesson on just how dramatically the sunlight/absence of affects apparent target image. To make a short story long..... the bright light coming down the bore of the scope made the shot impact high.