why remage nut vs just spinning barrels on and off?

[NorCalMikie]

You're not getting the message. You're mixing apples and oranges.
Smith don't know the specs of all the Remington take off actions.
The smith ALREADY knew the specs of YOUR "custom action". That's what makes them CUSTOM. He doesn't need to have your action in hand. He has the specs to go by.
You mention your TL3? That's NOT a mass produced take off action from a Remington rifle. (TL3) Custom actions with known specs is a much different animal than a Remington mass produced unit that someone wants to spin on shouldered barrel to fit.
My guess is if you lined up 10 Remington rifle actions, no 2 would be exactly alike in specs. Maybe close but would you spin a "shouldered barrel" on it and expect the head space to be exactly where it should be and if not, how are you going to change it? There's that smith involved again.
If a smith knew ahead of time the "actual measured specs" of the Remington take off action, a "shouldered" barrel could be cut so it spins on and you're good to go. And un shouldered barrel is different than a shouldered. Just like your Big Horn action is different than a take off Remington rifle that folks are wanting to add a RemAge barrel unit to.

 

[NorCalMikie]

All my shouldered prefits are interchangeable about all my ARC actions.

That's because the "specs" of the "CUSTOM ACTIONS" are known ahead of time.
The smith that cuts the barrel knows those specs and doesn't need the action in hand to work from.

 

[6MMsteve]

BUT, there's that "smith involved" again. And who decides where to set the head space?
Will that shouldered barrel fit another action and head space the same without a lathe to cut the shoulder? The DIY thing just went out the window.
A nutted barrel, marked and indexed to your action will get you the same thing.
Don't like the head space setting? Loosen the nut, move the barrel to the setting YOU want, snug it up and go shooting. And that index mark will also tell you if the barrel has moved.
Not everybody has a lathe or wants to wait on a smith to get work done "when he has the time".
Action wrench? Don't use it. Put mine back in the box under the bench when I had to loosen it so the barrel would turn without squealing. Cost more to ship it than it cost to sell.
Nut wrench and a padded vice will get you what you need. NEVER had a barrel come loose and no GORILLA needed top brake the nut loose. Gauge/case of your choice. Don't bother to use a "gauge". Got rid of all of mine. None of my rigs will load factory ammo anyway. Head space is on the snug side so my brass doesn't get moved any more than needed when sizing. YMMV,

exactly quit using my wrench years ago

 

[Tokay444]

And if it's off?? Someone has to cut the shoulder.


You can buy "a couple" of Savage "rifles" for that price.

Remember, the difference between "Custom action" and Factory.
Custom actions can and probably have "specs" that are known ahead of time.
XXX brand of custom action, call and say, I want a "shouldered" barrel for my action # XXX chambered in XYZ caliber. Done deal.
Try that on a Savage of Remington "factory" action and my bet is someone will have to "cut the shoulder" to set the head space. There's that smith being involved again.

But then you have a couple savage rifles.

 

[Tokay444]

That's because the "specs" of the "CUSTOM ACTIONS" are known ahead of time.
The smith that cuts the barrel knows those specs and doesn't need the action in hand to work from.

Well… …yeah. Of course, but that’s moot.

 

[Rob01]

You're not getting the message. You're mixing apples and oranges.
Smith don't know the specs of all the Remington take off actions.
The smith ALREADY knew the specs of YOUR "custom action". That's what makes them CUSTOM. He doesn't need to have your action in hand. He has the specs to go by.
You mention your TL3? That's NOT a mass produced take off action from a Remington rifle. (TL3) Custom actions with known specs is a much different animal than a Remington mass produced unit that someone wants to spin on shouldered barrel to fit.
My guess is if you lined up 10 Remington rifle actions, no 2 would be exactly alike in specs. Maybe close but would you spin a "shouldered barrel" on it and expect the head space to be exactly where it should be and if not, how are you going to change it? There's that smith involved again.
If a smith knew ahead of time the "actual measured specs" of the Remington take off action, a "shouldered" barrel could be cut so it spins on and you're good to go. And un shouldered barrel is different than a shouldered. Just like your Big Horn action is different than a take off Remington rifle that folks are wanting to add a RemAge barrel unit to.

Yeah you are saying the same thing as I am but you are stressing the smith vs Remages and “my custom” as it’s just mine and not every one made. I never said you don’t need a smith for a 700 shouldered. You do as I have used them for many many years but the 700 is not at or even near the top of the list for available actions to build on anymore and the game has changed with the custom actions I mentioned coming in and being the same or less than a trued 700 and giving better features not to mention, yet again, the ability to use BOTH shouldered and barrel nut barrels.

Well this horse has been beat to death.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Well this horse has been beat to death.

That IS a FACT!!
It's the custom verses a pulled down Remington action.
And we are/were talking "RemAge barrels for Remington take off actions , not Ruger or Winchester.
Ever seen a spin on barrel with the head space already set so the "smith doesn't need to get involved" for different rifle actions?
Your CUSTOM action has "known specs" (because it's a CUSTOM) where the take off Remington or most any other brand actions don't. There's that smith getting involved again.
Would you order a shouldered RemAge barrel from anyone that didn't know the "exact specs" of YOUR ACTION, spin it on and expect it to have the proper head space?? Me thinks NOT!

 

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

One thing I can see a shouldered barrel can do that a nut pre-fit can't is index a barrel to point up if the bore is off at all. With a shouldered barrel you can cut the threads and shoulder to headspace with the desired index. A nut barrel, you can't do that.

 

[NorCalMikie]

With a shouldered barrel you can cut the threads and shoulder to headspace with the desired index.

That makes it a "custom" pre fit. And, there's a smith involved that knows the specs of YOUR action to work from. So much for the DIY thing. (unless you have a lathe and the smarts)

 

[Rob01]

Is that a broken record I hear. Lol

 

[jimmymac]

As far as shouldered barrels go...Just because you have a custom action, that doesn’t mean the dimensions are exact from one to the next, so it’s best to have a smith fit up the first barrel with the action in his possession. After that he has all the required dimensions and can just roll with it. For instance, my BAT DS is an oddball. It shoots fine and nothing wrong with it. It just isn’t the same as my neighbors. We can’t switch barrels.

 

[thestoicmarcusaurelius]

As far as shouldered barrels go...Just because you have a custom action, that doesn’t mean the dimensions are exact from one to the next, so it’s best to have a smith fit up the first barrel with the action in his possession. After that he has all the required dimensions and can just roll with it. For instance, my BAT DS is an oddball. It shoots fine and nothing wrong with it. It just isn’t the same as my neighbors. We can’t switch barrels.

That's not really how it works. An action manufacturer will state whether or not the applicable dimensions are consistent enough for prefit barrels and most, if not all, action manufacturers advertising prefit barrel compatibility that want third parties to manufacture barrels will supply drawings/prints/specs to a barrel maker for the purpose of chambering a prefit barrel.

It becomes a selling point for the action manufacturer for prefit barrels to be widely available from different sources for that action.

I don't see where BAT advertises their DS action as being consistent enough for prefits.

 

[jimmymac]

I wasn’t discussing prefits. I clearly stated shouldered barrels.

 

[jimmymac]

Y’all can mull this over however you wish. I’m just telling you how it is from my actual experience. If you trust the dimensions from your action manufacturer, then power to you. I’m in the trust but verify camp.

 

[thestoicmarcusaurelius]

Y’all can mull this over however you wish. I’m just telling you how it is from my actual experience. If you trust the dimensions from your action manufacturer, then power to you. I’m in the trust but verify camp.

The verification is with go / no-go gauges.

And, I'm telling you how it works from experience as well with shouldered pre-fit barrels from at least four different manufacturers. Hopefully, a lot more in the future haha.

I wasn’t discussing prefits. I clearly stated shouldered barrels.

The point is that some custom actions are consistent enough for shouldered pre-fit barrels and some are not. Just because the specific action you have is not advertised to be consistent enough for pre-fit barrels does not mean that there are not other actions that are consistent enough.

 

[NorCalMikie]

More broken record stuff.
IMHO, any "real" smith worth his salt, when fitting a "shouldered" barrel and NOT having the "Custom action" in hand should know enough to have the serial # and call the folks that made that action and get the specs that are needed to cut the proper shoulder. No two the same? Get and go by the specs.
When cutting a shouldered barrel for a take off (Remington) action, he better know the measurements or have the action in hand. Some folks just arn't understanding that point. No shoulder? No Problem.

If you trust the dimensions from your action manufacturer, then power to you.

For the price you pay for that Custom action, I would hope you could trust their written dimensions.
If you should call them and ask for a "shouldered barrel", they know the specs and can cut the shoulder accordingly. Don't think they would be cutting the shoulder with the head space NOT being spot on??

 

[jimmymac]

Why is it a broken record? All I did was give a specific example of my experience because this thread is all over the place. There was talk earlier about custom actions not needing barrel fitting by a gunsmith because they were all the same. All I did was speak otherwise giving an example where that isn't the case.

The hostility and know it all shit here is a pain in the ass. I spend a lot of time putting in the work to get my stuff to shoot. Maybe these BAT actions just aren't worth a darn and I should go with something else with a pre-fit to compete.

 

[thestoicmarcusaurelius]

Why is it a broken record? All I did was give a specific example of my experience because this thread is all over the place. There was talk earlier about custom actions not needing barrel fitting by a gunsmith because they were all the same. All I did was speak otherwise giving an example where that isn't the case.

The hostility and know it all shit here is a pain in the ass. I spend a lot of time putting in the work to get my stuff to shoot. Maybe these BAT actions just aren't worth a darn and I should go with something else with a pre-fit to compete.

I don't remember anyone saying that all custom actions were the same and that all custom actions are consistent enough for shouldered pre-fit barrels. Some action manufacturers have indicated that specific models of their actions are not consistent enough for shouldered pre-fit barrels.

Whether a specific action is consistent enough for a shouldered pre-fit barrel or whether a manufacturer chooses to advertise a specific action as such is on a case-by-case basis.

No one trashed BAT actions. I'm pretty sure most people think they are at the top but they don't advertise as much to PRS/NRL style competitors who are mostly who is buying pre-fit shouldered barrels, not the F-Class and Benchrest crowd although I do know Kelbly's has pre-fit shouldered barrels that they offer for several of their actions on their website.

 

[NorCalMikie]

"I" replied to the "broken record" thing because folks wern't getting the point between the shouldered and un shouldered barrels.
Un shouldered will spin on and YOU set the head space. That makes it a DIY thing just like all of my Savage rigs.
Shouldered need someone to set the head space by tuning the shoulder to your action, custom or mass produced take off.
And a shouldered Savage barrel needs someone to cut the shoulder to set the head space.
Kinda hard to do without the action being in hand to measure or AT LEAST knowing where to get those specs to work from.
So in that respect, a pre fit shouldered barrel is NOT a DIY project.

 

[Rob01]

Yeah “folks” don’t get it. I agree. They are stuck in the past.