why remage nut vs just spinning barrels on and off?

[jelenko]

FWIW, some companies offer shoulderless prefits +0.010". It is a consideration though as I'm sure there's a lot barrel suppliers that aren't offering them yet

How would that work? Does that mean the headspace would be 10 thousandths?

 

[NorCalMikie]

Any of you barrel nut guys ever locktite your barrel nut? You know so if you take your barrel off the head space stay set.

Some do but I'am not one of them. I could see a problem when Loctite runs into the action/barrel threads. A little dab will do ya.
Me being the only one messing with my rigs. I set things up the way "I want them".
Once I've set the head space and locked down the nut, I'll mark the barrel and action with a black marker. Black marks WILL come off so be ready for that.
That shows me if the barrel has ever moved and with those marks, it shows me how close I am to my original head space setting if I pull and reinstall the barrel. Sometimes just a piece of marked tape on the action and barrel will do.
Just pulled one and shipped it off to "boltfluter" for the "Octagon" cut, got it back finished and ready to re install.
Had center punched the the 6 O Clock position before I sent it out so, ran the nut on the barrel, spun it into the action and within seconds I was right back to it's original head space setting. The barrel had to be marked for reference so the flats would come out right. (not cocked off to one side) And if not marked, someone would have blamed Paul for the flats being off. Round barrel, no issues.
And being it's a Savage, I can adjust the head space to where "I want it".
All of my rigs have the head space set on the snug side. The less I move my brass when re sizing, the longer it lasts. No over working the brass.

 

[tobnpr]

How would that work? Does that mean the headspace would be 10 thousandths?

Roughly.
They're called short-shouldered (and fully chambered) barrels.
Once set up, the shoulder is set back to achieve the desired headspace.
I've done a few of them that were customer-supplied barrels. Doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me- I think they may be targeted at the DIY shooter that has a lathe, but doesn't have the tooling to do the chambering work.

I see limited application there, but most hobbyists that own the machinery and do their own work will want to do all of it. Given the time spent needing to dial in a fully-chambered barrel just to be able to face the shoulder to set headspace it doesn't compute.

 

[jelenko]

Ah, they still have to be fitted.

 

[TC260]

How would that work? Does that mean the headspace would be 10 thousandths?

Has nothing to do with headspace. The threads are +0.010" for factory actions that have had the threads cleaned up

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

My factory switch barrel (204R,223 Rem,22-250shoots sub moa with handloads) is no longer made. TC dimension. Always watching for barrels for sale.

 

[tobnpr]

I stand corrected- thought "shouldered" and he said "shoulderless".
They do make short-shouldered prefits but he was referring to tenon diameter.

 

[338 dude]

Any of you barrel nut guys ever locktite your barrel nut? You know so if you take your barrel off the head space stay set. Inquiring minds want to know.

You beat me to it Steve

 

[rjtfroggy]

In answer to original question, because for DIYer's with no equipment to thread or chamber it is easier for barrel changing and much cheaper over multibal barrels.

 

[Rob01]

Not sure why everyone thinks you need a lathe or tools with shouldered prefits. Lol

 

[dnellans]

No one seems to have actually summed this up, so let me try since this thread is full of incorrect information.

You’re going to need a vice and some form of wrenches regardless of a shouldered or nutted prefit is chosen.

A shouldered prefit should only be made to an action that can guarantee headspace within a small range (.001 is typical). That’s how the gunsmith guarantees your headspace is correct, without you checking it. That dimension specifically is the bolt face to action face, though there are other measurement that better be consistent too.

A nutted barrel -requires- you to have your own headspace guage and set it appropriately because there is no shoulder. You screw it in until it fit on the go (or go+.002) then you use the nut to create a false shoulder which works just like a shoulder for the most part. I’ll claim this is actually -more- difficult than buying a shouldered prefit where the gunsmith and action tolerances are what you’re trusting but much easier to produce by the gunsmith. Onus is on the buyer to headspace it right.

Both require torquing “something” to the action face, so again you will need some minimal tools and reasonable mechanical prowess.

Both can shoot fine, both could be crap. Either one can be safe or unsafe if you (or the gunsmith) don’t know what they’re doing.

PS - you can still check the headspace on your shouldered prefit with a go guage, and you probably should.

 

[NorCalMikie]

There IS a difference between an "off the shelf" prefit and a "custom" prefit.
"Off the shelf" is someone elses opinion of what "most" would like.
"Custom" prefit would be a barrel threaded and chambered with the "customers" reamer and specs.
I'am thinking Savage. Never done a Remington/Savage type barrel (Remage)
Does sound interesting tho and would sure work on my XP 100 actioned .221 Fireball that I've thought about re barreling to my "20 TCM" Wildcat.
All I would need is a threaded barrel and nut (Remage) in the length and contour of "my "choice" chambered with "my" reamer. The wheels are turning, again.

 

[NorCalMikie]

Not sure why everyone thinks you need a lathe or tools with shouldered prefits ??

Because no two actions are "exactly" the same?? One action with a bunch of different caliber barrels?
The barrel will be threaded/chambered then the shoulder cut. No adjustment for head space setting? Somebody has to cut/fit the shoulder!!??
Action has to be present to set the proper head space?? Not talking Savage here.

 

[Rob01]

Because no two actions are "exactly" the same?? One action with a bunch of different caliber barrels?
The barrel will be threaded/chambered then the shoulder cut. No adjustment for head space setting? Somebody has to cut/fit the shoulder!!??
Action has to be present to set the proper head space?? Not talking Savage here.

Nope. You can buy multiple custom actions of the same make and move barrels from one to the other. I don’t think you are understanding custom actions and shouldered prefits. You don’t need to do any work. Screw it on. And you can move it around from the same type of action say a Bighorn TL3. The barrel, like a nut style, is chambered and threaded and then sent to customer. Customer just screws it on. Simple as that.

ETA. Take a look at the Patriot Valley Arms prefit page. Click on a caliber and look at the receiver options. All you have to do is say that’s your action and they make the barrel for it. They can also do the nut style too but the shouldered prefits can be ordered and screwed right on.

Prefit Barrels using Rock Creek blanks

patriotvalleyarms.com

 

[NorCalMikie]

We're not comparing "Custom Actions" to factory Remington mass produced or Savage actions. We all know better, or at least should. The key word is Custom Action.
Just to"look at" the price list of a "Custom Action" will cost you more than most Savage actions cost.
??? XP threads the same as a 700?? Been eyeballing Criterion Remage spin ons.

 

[Rob01]

We're not comparing "Custom Actions" to factory Remington mass produced or Savage actions. We all know better, or at least should. The key word is Custom Action.
Just to look at the price list of a "Custom Action" will cost you more than most Savage actions.
??? XP threads the same as a 700?? Been eyeballing Criterion Remage spin ons.

Actually custom actions are not that expensive now and definitely part of this conversation. You can get them as low as $550 for a McBros but a good Bighorn Origin is only $875. That comes with a 20 moa base and the ability to change bolt heads so you can have multiple calibers on one action. Also a pinned recoil lug so no jogs to hold it straight. Send a factory action to get “trued” and you are near there. Unless you have the action and are attached to it, starting with a factory action is not the best way to build now.

 

[NorCalMikie]

PS - you can still check the headspace on your shouldered prefit with a go guage, and you probably should.

And if it's off?? Someone has to cut the shoulder.

You can get them as low as $550 for a McBros but a good Bighorn Origin is only $875.

You can buy "a couple" of Savage "rifles" for that price.

Remember, the difference between "Custom action" and Factory.
Custom actions can and probably have "specs" that are known ahead of time.
XXX brand of custom action, call and say, I want a "shouldered" barrel for my action # XXX chambered in XYZ caliber. Done deal.
Try that on a Savage of Remington "factory" action and my bet is someone will have to "cut the shoulder" to set the head space. There's that smith being involved again.

 

[Rob01]

And if it's off?? Someone has to cut the shoulder.


You can buy "a couple" of Savage "rifles" for that price.

Remember, the difference between "Custom action" and Factory.
Custom actions can and probably have "specs" that are known ahead of time.
XXX brand of custom action, call and say, I want a "shouldered" barrel for my action # XXX chambered in XYZ caliber. Done deal.
Try that on a Savage of Remington "factory" action and my bet is someone will have to "cut the shoulder" to set the head space. There's that smith being involved again.

Not anymore. Savage rifles are not cheap anymore.

And all they need to know the type of action. Not the serial number. All the actions are to spec. Just say what action and get the barrel. Simple.

Also I understand putting barrels on factory rifles as I have had 9 barrels on my match Rem 700 .308 that I have shot out so that action has had around 70,000 round on it alone and multiple other rifles that were pre prefit like Surgeon, Lawton and GAP Templars. I have had barrels put on all of them multiple times and have 6 different barrels for the Surgeon now and a couple for the GAP. No pre fits but my smith has the action spec so I don’t need to send the action in. I have never warmed to barrel nuts.

 

[NorCalMikie]

No pre fits but my smith has the action spec so I don’t need to send the action in.

There's the difference right there!! The smith knew ahead of time what the specs of your action were.
Shouldered and un shouldered is the difference. Un shouldered with a nut is easy. Shouldered needs a smith to set the head space from the get go!!
After that, with the specs provided, a smith can set the head space, ship the barrel to you and you spin it on.

 

[Rob01]

There's the difference right there!! The smith knew ahead of time what the specs of your action were.
Shouldered and un shouldered is the difference. Un shouldered with a nut is easy. Shouldered needs a smith to set the head space from the get go!!
After that, with the specs provided, a smith can set the head space, ship the barrel to you and you spin it on.

The smiths know the specs of all the actions. You are confusing it all. My TL3 actions have never seen a smith. They just showed up to me and smith did barrels separate. You need a smith to get your nut barrel working also as it’s not a blank. The smith needs to thread and chamber both the shouldered and nut style. Only place a shouldered is an issue is with factory actions as they are all different.