Which bullet for 300yd F-class?

[fatelvis]

If you were shooting a .223 bolt gun (26" bbl, 1:7 twist) primarily for 300yd F-class competition, what bullet and weight would you gravitate towards using?
Thanks guys.

 

[rsmithsr50]

68 thru 77

 

[xswanted]

80 SMK
80 Berger
85.5 Berger

 

[Terry]

Mine likes 80 Nosler CC bullets. I moly coat them.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Something in the 80 plus range.

 

[CharlieNC]

The 80.5 Berger fullbore is most accurate I have used, but I switched to 90vld for longer distances due to superior wind bucking.

 

[coldboreshot]

I have actually had good luck with the 90 vld's as well in a Noveske 18" 1-7 cl barrel AR platform. Not saying I use this platform for comp but more to stating the potential of the 90 vld's.

 

[Uncle Mike]

The Berger 90 VLDs will work in the 7 twist barrels but sacrifice some BC according to the Berger technician I spoke with. I tried 80 Sierras and Hornady but the Vlds still out shot them in my 7 twist barrel. But as Dgd6mm posted anything in the 80+ range should be a good starting point.

 

[Longtrain]

Do the math against any bullet that your twist can handle. Limited to 300 yards, IMO the 80.5 Berger is a top choice mixing speed, a decent BC and excellent accuracy. (Note: the 80.5 is very easy to tune without a lot of fiddling around).
If fiddling is in your nature you might try Berger’s 85.5 Hybrid, higher BC, 1:7 will work, just need to see if they like your barrel. At 600, the 85.5 is a good 1/2 MOA better in the wind, which may mean 9’s are now 10’s, which is good.

 

[JAlfred]

Wind would decide for me.

90 smk if the wind is bad.
80 -80.5 if things are normal
Sierra 77 TMKs shot my best 300 ever, 200 with 12 or more x, can't remember exactly

 

[Hohn]

I've had great results with the newer ELD-Ms. 73 is very accurate but gives up some BC. 75 I didn't do enough load development on, and the 80 I don't think I've really found its full capability yet but I like what I'm seeing.

I'd encourage you check out the 75 ELD-m. It has an excellent form factor of .928, which is excellent for a .22 cal bullet under 80gr.

To my knowledge, of the "big four" bullet brands (Hornady, Berger, Sierra, Nosler) the only .22 cal bullets with better form factors are the 90gr A-tip (0.887!) and the 85.5 LR Hybrid (0.908).

 

[Hohn]

Wind would decide for me.

90 smk if the wind is bad.
80 -80.5 if things are normal
Sierra 77 TMKs shot my best 300 ever, 200 with 12 or more x, can't remember exactly

73 ELDs have gone 200-14x for me twice from an AR, but that was on a sling face, so make of that what you will.

 

[fatelvis]

Thanks guys! I'm going to try 80SMK and 85.5 hybrids to start. While looking at my Quickload for suitable powders, RL17, CFE223, and IMR4895 all are at the top of the chart for velocities with these bullets @ 50K psi. Do any of you use those powders, or stick with the old standby....Varget?

 

[Dub]

IMR48945 is a great choice. CFE223 shoots well but makes my bbl red hot

 

[savage110nut]

I'm pushing the Nosler 80gr CC (nearly identical to the SMK) at just over 2900fps (30" barrel) with H4895 and it's proven very accurate in the local 300 yard matches. This load also has the lowest ES/SD I've had in a 223 during load development. H4895 was more accurate than Varget in my gun, but YMMV.

My chamber is not throated long enough for 90s.

 

[Ned Ludd]

Thanks guys! I'm going to try 80SMK and 85.5 hybrids to start. While looking at my Quickload for suitable powders, RL17, CFE223, and IMR4895 all are at the top of the chart for velocities with these bullets @ 50K psi. Do any of you use those powders, or stick with the old standby....Varget?

Just be certain your rifle is throated long enough for the very long bullets you intend to try before putting a great deal of time and $$$ into it. If you have to seat the long heavy bullets way down deep into the case due to a short freebore chamber, their advantage is effectively lost. As far as powders, I'd strongly suggest starting with either Varget or H4895. It's not solely about velocity, although either of those two powders should give you plenty. You also need to take into account the long strings of fire we shoot in F-Class, so powders with minimal temperature sensitivity are usually a good idea.

 

[Hohn]

Just be certain your rifle is throated long enough for the very long bullets you intend to try before putting a great deal of time and $$$ into it. If you have to seat the long heavy bullets way down deep into the case due to a short freebore chamber, their advantage is effectively lost. As far as powders, I'd strongly suggest starting with either Varget or H4895. It's not solely about velocity, although either of those two powders should give you plenty. You also need to take into account the long strings of fire we shoot in F-Class, so powders with minimal temperature sensitivity are usually a good idea.

I’m hesitant at all to disagree with Ned, so let’s call this another view instead.

I'm not so sure that the second sentence above (if you have to seat long...) is always correct. Often correct, perhaps even usually. The case capacity penalty might or might not be consequential to you. It depends on your case fill and such. And it also depends on where the accuracy nodes of the next lighter and next heavier bullets are with your particular powder. I'd suggest you test for yourself. I found accuracy with an 80 ELD at only 2.432" in my rifle. And I'm able to push it lower mid 2700s in an 18" AR. Warm load, yes. But it went 193 at 500y. Now, I know that's nothing special to most F-classers, but this was an 18" AR off a light folding bipod with a squeeze bag and a 15x scope in some pretty awful conditions, such that a 193 was the 3rd highest score at 500y in all of F-class. This is not a match rifle, it is a heavy barrel 18" AR with a NATO chamber. I'd expect normally it wouldn't be competitive even in FTR, never mind F-open.


This is why I don't think at all that it's a given that you have to have a rifle throated to the moon to run a heavy bullet effectively. It really depends on the OAL and powder charge wt where you find accuracy in your gun.

Varget and H4895 are super popular powders for a reason--they work well. I've personally had great luck with 8208xbr also and AR Comp too, so don't shy away from them if you have some on hand.

 

[JAlfred]

8208 and 80s has been very good to me.

 

[lal357]

80 amax (if you can find them )
80 eldm
88 eldm

 

[Ned Ludd]

I’m hesitant at all to disagree with Ned, so let’s call this another view instead.

I'm not so sure that the second sentence above (if you have to seat long...) is always correct. Often correct, perhaps even usually. The case capacity penalty might or might not be consequential to you. It depends on your case fill and such. And it also depends on where the accuracy nodes of the next lighter and next heavier bullets are with your particular powder. I'd suggest you test for yourself. I found accuracy with an 80 ELD at only 2.432" in my rifle. And I'm able to push it lower mid 2700s in an 18" AR. Warm load, yes. But it went 193 at 500y. Now, I know that's nothing special to most F-classers, but this was an 18" AR off a light folding bipod with a squeeze bag and a 15x scope in some pretty awful conditions, such that a 193 was the 3rd highest score at 500y in all of F-class. This is not a match rifle, it is a heavy barrel 18" AR with a NATO chamber. I'd expect normally it wouldn't be competitive even in FTR, never mind F-open.


This is why I don't think at all that it's a given that you have to have a rifle throated to the moon to run a heavy bullet effectively. It really depends on the OAL and powder charge wt where you find accuracy in your gun.

Varget and H4895 are super popular powders for a reason--they work well. I've personally had great luck with 8208xbr also and AR Comp too, so don't shy away from them if you have some on hand.

No worries, Hohn, everyone can have differences of opinion. It's what makes this such a good site. Chamber issues such as how long a freebore is necessary for a given bullet are rarely written in stone. Rather, there is usually a bit of latitude within which different people can usually achieve comparable results. If I sometimes come across as being very dogmatic with respect to opinions about loading and seating 80 to 90 gr bullets in the .223 Rem, it's because I have spent a lot of time and effort finding out what works. So I generally try to share that knowledge such that others may not have to go down the same rabbit hole.

I also have a .223 rifle with a very short freebore (in fact, zero freebore) that I worked up a load with the 80.5s suck pretty far down in the neck. That load shoots very well. Nonetheless, it's not optimal. The pressure is higher than it needs to be, and the case life will be shorter than it should be because of it. There are also other less than positive issues associated with seating bullets below the case neck/shoulder junction. I had sufficient reloading experience to make it work, but I certainly wouldn't recommend it to someone just starting out reloading for the .223 Rem. There is a very big difference between trying to load the 80s or 90s out of a rifle that might have something like .100" to .120" freebore, which is certainly short relative to the .169"+ freebores optimized for the 90 VLDs, and trying to load them in a rifle throated with less than .050" freebore. The first will probably work ok, even if it's not optimal. I view the other as a waste of time and would focus my efforts on a bullet design more in tune with the chamber setup.

Anyone that has a copy of QuickLoad and is interested in playing around with the numbers can easily do these sorts of exercises. If you choose a reasonable operating pressure below SAAMI max, you can vary COAL in silico with a given bullet weight and powder and get a pretty good idea of the effect on pressure and velocity. With those data in hand, it is also not too difficult to determine whether a heavier, higher BC bullet can be pushed fast enough with a given setup to actually take advantage of its higher BC, as compared to some lighter/shorter bullet with a lower BC that might be more optimal with regard to the freebore of the rifle.