Which 223 Bullet

[TCKev]

I'm building a fast twist 1:7 tactical match style bolt gun. Haven't shot the 223 other than an AR. So which bullet would you choose to build it around the 80gr Amax or the 80gr Berger? I'm waiting on a Defiance Deviant receiver to screw a 26" Krieger M24 barrel.

 

[Mozella]

... snip.............. build it around the 80gr Amax or the 80gr Berger? ..... snip..........

You're gonna' have to test for yourself.

I've had poor luck with the A-max bullets. I can't get them to shoot very well in either my .223 or my 6mm BR; however, some folks report them to be their absolute favorites. And if they meet your accuracy requirements, they're usually less expensive.

I've had good results with Berger bullets but the VLD versions take some experiment to find the best load and seating depth; i.e. they take some dedication to tune. Others have had no luck at all with the Bergers.

Test some Sierra Match Kings too.

 

[Shynloco]

You're gonna' have to test for yourself.

.......Test some Sierra Match Kings too.

For Sierra Match Kings,consider some 77 gr bullets as they are specifically for 1:7 - 1:8 twist barrels.

 

[r bose]

Shooting less than 600 yards? 80.5g Berger

 

[XTR]

You may want to look and see if you can find the 80Amax, that may answer your question. It is one of the bullets that Hornady took out of production 2 yrs ago and they may not be running them again yet.

 

[CharlieNC]

How far are you shooting? At 300 the 69SMK has the edge for my 8twist, with the 75HornBTHP close behind. Out to 1000 the 70VLD has worked well on steel, and looking at the 80.5FB for better performance. The 75Amax has been inferior across the board for me.

 

[TCKev]

I'm a Berger bullet guy for sure. Just thought the Amax would be one to try. Furthest for now would be 600yds. I would love to be able to shoot the 70vld up to the 80.5bt. I'll have get some in hand for oal.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

The Berger 80.5 gr Fullbore is an outstanding bullet, it has a solid BC, tangent ogive, and is very forgiving to tune. It also has the shortest bearing surface length of any of the 80-somethings, and therefore requires the least freebore to seat optimally. For that reason, you don't need a chamber with a throat that is extraordinarily long, which may be an advantage for also using shorter bullets like the 77 SMK out of the same rifle. At some point, a chamber cut for a really long bearing surface on a "heavier" .224 bullet in the 80/90 gr range will force you to have a throat that is much longer than would be optimal for a bullet like the 77 SMK, and it may be a little more difficult to get the shorter bullet to shoot well.

I've been following this thread having put a new 8 twist 223AI barrel on my Savage for purposes of shooting up to 80g bullets. The chamber has a very short freebore. For some reason, with about 25.2 grains of N140, the 77 g TMK, loaded with a .010 jump, will compress the powder but the 80 g.SMK, with the same jump. does not. I'm getting very good performance with both bullets but I worry about compressing the charge with the 77's. I plan on holding off with them until warmer weather and then use CFE. Will have to try a box of the 80.5 Bergers.

 

[swadiver]

I've been following this thread having put a new 8 twist 223AI barrel on my Savage for purposes of shooting up to 80g bullets. The chamber has a very short freebore. For some reason, with about 25.2 grains of N140, the 77 g TMK, loaded with a .010 jump, will compress the powder but the 80 g.SMK, with the same jump. does not. I'm getting very good performance with both bullets but I worry about compressing the charge with the 77's. I plan on holding off with them until warmer weather and then use CFE. Will have to try a box of the 80.5 Bergers.

My Krieger barreled AR (1 in 7.7 twist) and my Criterion barreled (1 in 9 twist) love 73 gr Bergers with either Varget or Benchmark

 

[Mozella]

I've been following this thread having put a new 8 twist 223AI barrel on my Savage for purposes of shooting up to 80g bullets. The chamber has a very short freebore. ...... snip.....

You can solve that yourself with the PTG Uni-Throater reamer, about a hundred and fifty bucks. It has a pilot matching your bore and a rear bearing matching your chamber plus some stop nuts which you can adjust to achieve the perfect depth of cut. Just take the barreled action out of the stock; no need to take the barrel off the action. You turn it by hand, no real gunsmith equipment or experience needed.

Of course you have to do some careful measuring, you must have a good idea of what you want, and pay careful attention to what you're doing because there is an opportunity for the ham-fisted DIYer to ruin a good barrel.

 

[Shynloco]

..... that's over 70 thousandths difference and likely accounts for the 77s compressing powder, whereas the 80s do not.

Not sure I can agree with the "77s compressing powder" business. That statement is not true in ALL cases when using either VVN140 or VVN530 in a 1:8 barrel in either a bolt gun or an AR. It will depending you your individual rifle and the load she likes best as well as how you seat the bullet. Been there myself on both accounts and the load was NOT compressed using 77's.

 

[dkhunt14]

A lot of with compressing powder also has to do with how much freebore is in the gun. Matt

 

[BoilerUP]

The 80gr Amax is back in production and has been for some time, although it appears Hornady has stopped making the 600ct boxes for it.

I have a Criterion 223AI Savage prefit; it has a 0.061" freebore and I've had no issue running the 80gr Amax and even the 90gr VLD.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

You can solve that yourself with the PTG Uni-Throater reamer, about a hundred and fifty bucks. It has a pilot matching your bore and a rear bearing matching your chamber plus some stop nuts which you can adjust to achieve the perfect depth of cut. Just take the barreled action out of the stock; no need to take the barrel off the action. You turn it by hand, no real gunsmith equipment or experience needed.

Of course you have to do some careful measuring, you must have a good idea of what you want, and pay careful attention to what you're doing because there is an opportunity for the ham-fisted DIYer to ruin a good barrel.

I've been thinking about doing that. Just hate the thought of spending that much money for such little use. I think I'm leaning towards what I originally said about holding off until the weather warms up and get a few lbs of CFE to use up the 77's I have. I've got a thousand 80SMK coming tomorrow. That bullet is giving me excellent results with 25.2g N140. The N140 is almost gone, to be replaced by Varget. Since the Varget has a larger grain size I'm going to have to see how much I can get into a case when seating the 80's. Another option may be to save the Varget for my 6mm and get a faster powder for the 223. Problem is I've got 26 lbs of Varget.

 

[Deleted old_dood]

my load with the 77's and N140 was 25.3. the bullet was crunching the powder with a .010 jump. I worked up a load with RL15 and came up with a node between 24.8 and 25.1. with 25.1 no powder compressing and the same jump so I guess I'm good for now. Out of curiosity, how easy is a PTG Unithroater to sell should I want to go that route?

 

[Mozella]

..... snip..... Out of curiosity, how easy is a PTG Unithroater to sell should I want to go that route?

Hard to say. They're cartridge specific, so there isn't exactly a robust market for them, either new or used. I'd guess if you buy one for $150 bucks, you are unlikely to be able to sell it for $150 bucks, but I imagine someone would go for a once-used example at $100. But that's just a guess.

I posted a "wanted-to-buy" notice here and didn't find any sellers; however, one forum member who had one on the way offered to let me borrow his for free after he finished his own project. I couldn't wait for a few weeks, so I bought one. Plus I HATE to loan tools, so I don't like to borrow them either.

Perhaps you could ask some of your local gunsmiths if they would be interested in buying yours after you use it once.