When to anneal

[quest450]

That really consistent! About the only variation that stands out to me is the starting points of the pressure due to variation in case trim length. And that's not all that much either, as best I can tell???

yeah it does look kinda fat but after zooming in there's .020" difference in 200 cases 0.155 - 0.175" I do trim my brass every time I squeeze it and all cases are within a 0.001" using a Giraud trimmer, I'd like to have a single line on the graph but that's just not gonna happen
My point was that annealing and consistent neck prep ( I do not clean my brass.....outside only ) does make difference on paper IMO, every single minute detail does make a difference if you trying to shoot small consistently, some ppl are not willing to go the extra mile, don't have equipment capable or do not think it matters so..... to each their own.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

IMO using a quality annealer like the AMP reduces neck tension inconsistencies and variables, turning necks on a precission tool like the AutoDOD helps keeping the neck wall thickness within .0005" which further reduces variations in seating force keeping your match grade ammo consistent and uniform BUT that's a LOT of money invested in high end tools and not everyone is willing or able to spend that kinda coin, if you wanna compete at the highest level that's definitely something to consider, then again I do know top shooters who don't bother with any of it and do well so whatever floats your boat I guess.

here's a pic of 200 rounds prepped for a match about 15psi spread in seating force

View attachment 1569866

15psi es for 200 is as good as it gets.

 

[LVLAaron]

wrong answer ,,try again

Look up galling.

 

[misser]

Look up galling.

oh i know what galling is but somehow you have to get spinning friction to get galling. pretty sure your not stroking anything fast enough to get that kind of friction .

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Did the op ever get the answer to his question but this thread like most got tracked

 

[LVLAaron]

oh i know what galling is but somehow you have to get spinning friction to get galling. pretty sure your not stroking anything fast enough to get that kind of friction .

Nothing has to "spin" to gall. Back to my original point, I use a dry lube in the necks to get a more consistent and lower seating pressure. Last I'm saying on the topic.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

So with all the great and not so great info on the net. When do you anneal in your process. Primal rights vid shows to anneal before any other process. Right after you fire them. Other's do it after they deprime and clean. i don't get turning the brass red hot and burning the carbon on or into the brass. Same for Keith Glasscock.

Yes, its been standard practice to anneal first long before youtube channels. I tested it over a decade ago. Not that i was first but just verify what others said. Its good you asked here. Most youtube info is terrible.

 

[marchx]

Yes, its been standard practice to anneal first long before youtube channels. I tested it over a decade ago. Not that i was first but just verify what others said. Its good you asked here. Most youtube info is terrible.

But there is also plenty of good stuff on youtube-
Erik
Keith
John
Gavin

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Not all of it.
On youtube you say what you want and delete posts. No one can challenge you. Some guys have left forums for that reason. Same with facebook you can ban people and delete posts. Some dont like to be challenged. Thats cool. Some of them put out good stuff. But at the end of the day its for the $$$. Thats a fact. Forums are the last place that people can call bs. And we are not paid to post here. Just something to consider.

 

[misser]

Nothing has to "spin" to gall. Back to my original point, I use a dry lube in the necks to get a more consistent and lower seating pressure. Last I'm saying on the topic.

galling and a shinny spot are two different things

 

[LVLAaron]

galling and a shinny spot are two different things

 

[LVLAaron]

FWIW: If you wet tumble, anneal after you tumble. The steel pins/tumbling will work harden the brass.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

IMO using a quality annealer like the AMP reduces neck tension inconsistencies and variables, turning necks on a precission tool like the AutoDOD helps keeping the neck wall thickness within .0005" which further reduces variations in seating force keeping your match grade ammo consistent and uniform BUT that's a LOT of money invested in high end tools and not everyone is willing or able to spend that kinda coin, if you wanna compete at the highest level that's definitely something to consider, then again I do know top shooters who don't bother with any of it and do well so whatever floats your boat I guess.

here's a pic of 200 rounds prepped for a match about 15psi spread in seating force

View attachment 1569866

Is the Y-axis really pressure in psi? You mention 15psi spread in seating force is why I ask.

 

[Fast14riot]

Wet tumble gives you a really clean/sticky surface, so I have to treat the insides of the necks with Neolube. If I didn't clean, or did a vibe tumble, I could skip some steps, I think.

Does your brass touch the dirt? Do you shoot different powders or use different lubes when sizing? If not, ditch the tumbling all together. If I'm going to handle each case for primer pockets, case mouth brushing, etm, adding a 2 second twist with synthetic #0000 steel wool on the neck and shoulder for the 75 cases I load for a match is still faster than wet tumbling and drying in a dehydrator.

I still use my tumbler on occasion, like buying 1x fired factory brass, or if I get some tarnished bullets for cheap, or my kids find some cool rocks I toss in some grit and tumble those for a week, lol! Occasionally I have steel parts needing deburred, in the tumbler they go.

 

[D Coots]

Here's why I decap 1st.
Say you were out doing some testing and you had 1 or more rounds that needed to be pulled down for whatever reason, by decapping 1st its safe insurance that no live primer will be subject to go off unexpectedly.
I've also received brass second hand that had live primers on more than 1 occasion.

A friend told me it makes a very loud noise when they go off....

Later

Dave

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Decap. Wet tumble. Dry. Anneal. Size. Load.

I’m considering ditching the wet tumble.

switch to rice:

anneal
decap/size
primer pocket scraper
rotary tumble in rice
trim/chamfer
prime
powder
bullets

easy peazy

 

[DiffEQ]

Well I do decap my brass 1st, then anneal

Same. I anneal after every firing. You won't ever see my brass glow unless the lights are out and then it's a very dull, deep red.
I know the question is about annealing, but I've been toying with bypassing the wet tumbling that comes next. I've been splitting my batches where half are tumbled, half are not, and so far it makes zero difference on the target. The only thing that keeps me tumbling is because I like purdy brass.

switch to rice:

With the cost of rice now-a-days, I wouldn't go that route.
I read a long thread once on using kitty litter instead of cob or walnut. I tried it. works great, but what a god-awful mess!

 

[LVLAaron]

With the cost of rice now-a-days

Ethnic grocery store.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Same. I anneal after every firing. You won't ever see my brass glow unless the lights are out and then it's a very dull, deep red.
I know the question is about annealing, but I've been toying with bypassing the wet tumbling that comes next. I've been splitting my batches where half are tumbled, half are not, and so far it makes zero difference on the target. The only thing that keeps me tumbling is because I like purdy brass.


With the cost of rice now-a-days, I wouldn't go that route.
I read a long thread once on using kitty litter instead of cob or walnut. I tried it. works great, but what a god-awful mess!

$20 for a 15lb bag that will last a long time (this is the exact rice to use for tumbling). Once you go rice you will never go back to anything else. Absorbs carbon, leaves zero residue, and is 100% dust free.

 

[DiffEQ]

i dont understand '' clean/sticky surface''

Torque a barrel rifle on without any lube, and you'll understand perfectly.

wrong answer ,,try again

galling and a shinny spot are two different things

Even though there may not be transfer of copper to the inside of the neck, while it's not technically the correct term, I would classify the reworking of the brass to create the shiny spot as galling.
Seat and pull a bunch of cast bullets and you will see galling, with the apparent lead adhering to the surface of the brass neck. I tried graphite for a brief period, and abandoned the step, as it made zero difference in my end result.

FWIW: If you wet tumble, anneal after you tumble. The steel pins/tumbling will work harden the brass.

I sweated that one for about ten minutes. Annealing before tumbling, they all hit the tumbler with the same ballpark of relative internal stress. The stress caused by wet tumbling will be averaged across all the brass where they will all be in the same ballpark again.
It's my opinion that the only valid measure of the entire process is the force measurement of the bullet seating. The ones that are too soft or too hard get culled.