The only part of the brass that'll get any work hardening is only a very very thin layer of the surface of the brass. It definitely will not work harden all the way into and through.
When to anneal
- Thread starter wywindsor
- Start date
Larry Koch
Silver $$ Contributor
Sometimes I anneal before breakfast, sometimes after. It just depends on the weather and time of year.
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
Don't be so sure.
It hardens them enough to make a difference in the sizing / shoulder set back process.
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shot peening in water ? no
my bad Chris, it is Lbs of seating force not psi
Very little impact. The pins roll in water. The pin are not shot against the cases. The drum turns at a low RPM. If you believe the cases are work hardened that's your opinion not a fact.
you have taken things out of order . tumble wet first ,tumble corncob to dry, anneal, size , tumble corncob to remove lube, prime , powder and bullet seating , shoot ,repeat.
I believe it is the brass laden with pins colliding together that causes the peening of case mouths and work hardening.
Last night I wet tumbled 150 Vartargs. I separate most of the pins in a Lyman screen separator first and then dump cases in a Dillon rotary separator filled with water to remove the remaining pins inside the brass. The pins were still remaining in the Dillon separator so I went out and weighed them. There was 1# 6 oz of pins inside the cases. That equates to about 150 grains of total weight, including the case, when tumbling, falling, colliding in the Rockford tumbler. It's also probably significantly more than 150 grains since many pins must fall out in the transfer from the tumbler and first Lyman separation.
Case mouths have a serrated appearance and a peened ridge after tumbling that can be felt with a finger nail or dental pick which I remove via chamfering.
I have experienced batches of brass, all Lake City, with excessive shoulder spring back after annealing with an Ugly Annealer at same time duration and gas regulator setting. I suspect the spring back differential could be attributed it to the duration of time tumbling in pins.
Conclusion:
I think @LVLAaron that wet tumbling can work harden brass enough to affect shoulder spring back.
Last night I wet tumbled 150 Vartargs. I separate most of the pins in a Lyman screen separator first and then dump cases in a Dillon rotary separator filled with water to remove the remaining pins inside the brass. The pins were still remaining in the Dillon separator so I went out and weighed them. There was 1# 6 oz of pins inside the cases. That equates to about 150 grains of total weight, including the case, when tumbling, falling, colliding in the Rockford tumbler. It's also probably significantly more than 150 grains since many pins must fall out in the transfer from the tumbler and first Lyman separation.
Case mouths have a serrated appearance and a peened ridge after tumbling that can be felt with a finger nail or dental pick which I remove via chamfering.
I have experienced batches of brass, all Lake City, with excessive shoulder spring back after annealing with an Ugly Annealer at same time duration and gas regulator setting. I suspect the spring back differential could be attributed it to the duration of time tumbling in pins.
Conclusion:
I think @LVLAaron that wet tumbling can work harden brass enough to affect shoulder spring back.
All the responses above are good answers to your question. Here is what I do and why. I dry tumble spent casings as soon as I get home from the range. I clean the dust off them by rolling them on an towel and go right to the annealer. It is my understanding that the whole reason for annealing is to make the casings pliable for sizing so why would de-prime/size (usually one step on most dies) before you anneal? If you dry tumble with media like walnut chips, it makes sense to tumble with the spent primers in to protect the primer fire hole from getting media stuck in the fire hole. Otherwise, you really have to be extra vigilant in looking at each fire hole before priming.
I use Lapua brass and have fired many of my brass in excess of 12 times with no signs of fatigue. Just my $.02!
I use Lapua brass and have fired many of my brass in excess of 12 times with no signs of fatigue. Just my $.02!
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
I anneal my brass immediately when I get home. This is the first part of the process for me. I don’t clean my brass, other than a nylon brush once in and out of the necks after the brass has cooled from annealing.
right, shinny brass does nothing
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
What do you do about the outside of the necks, and primer pocket?
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
This is super easy to do. Don’t anneal primed brass.
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
I have never cleaned any lube off my loaded rounds. I simply wipe them gently with a dry microfiber towel. Works great, brass has lasted 23+ firings, shot many many clean targets, and won many times using this same process.
Dave
Right. A shiny stock also does nothing. What percentage of benchrest/Fclass shooters pay big $$ for custom paint jobs with 7 layers of high gloss automotive clear coat? 'Doing something' has nothing to do with it, does it?
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
I have tested primer pocket cleaning versus uncleaned at 600 and 1000 yards and it’s just noise, it makes no difference. Because of this I stopped cleaning primer pockets 2 years ago. As for the outside of the necks, I will wipe them down really quick with a crazy cloth after every 5 firings (which I keep track of in a book, but I’ve also tested 5X fired uncleaned necks against 5X fired necks cleaned with a crazy cloth, and again it was nothing but noise. I merely do it every 5X firings for a tiny bit of piece of mind. Although, as a side note, I just started this process on my .284 brass at the end of the 2022 season. My Lapua brass for my 6 dasher has 23+ firings on the brass and I have never once cleaned the outside of the necks, and it’s an absolute hammer (see the pics of the brass necks and patina below).
Dave
Dave M.
F-Open Class shooter (284 win, 6dasher, 6.5-7PRCW)
I go to great lengths not to tumble because it has no positive effect on the target.
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