What Priming Tool to Buy

[muleystalker]

It does need to cam over slightly. I know and fully understand exactly how the press and primer tool works! The small harrells press does NOT have the leverage other presses have. I've tried a short stroke...sounds funny, but the handle being that high doesn't have much force yet. You'll pull the press right off the bench! The handle on these presses are short anyhow, so no biggie on the travel. Only way to screw priming tool down deeper is to shorten the ram on press. Not doing that. I choose to take the least off the ram plate. I can probably face more off ram holder for maybe a turn or two. Probably the only way you will understand this is to try it on a Harrells yourself. It's not the same as a conventional press...

I know what you're talking about, I have 2 Harrells presses that size, a Sinclair, and a Harrells 4xTurrent press. great presses buy the way. I would just bolt the Harrells to the bench, The Primal Rights handle isn't any longer than a Harrells handle and works fine. Might have to do with its position but I think either way it's going to need to be bolted to the bench. For sure the way it's clamped now just bearing on that narrow wooden door shim isn't going to help. It's defiantly something that can be worked out, once it is it looks like it should workout quite nice. Keep us posted.

 

[ridgeway]

Works fabulous how I have it, haha. The shim is there because the top countertop has raised radius on the end. The shim was in arms length laying around and it works to make it clamp solid. If the clamp on press was a tad further back, it would clamp solid. It's right in alignment if the countertop lip. There is no effort in priming how I have it set up and don't want to bolt it down. The fulcrum, load, effort is all in different locations, so handle length can't be a comparison. That's why the harrells need the stroke length how I have it. Haha

 

[rlporter507]

This past winter I really focused on getting consistent primer seating depth. IMHO, there are 4 kinds of priming tools. ones that index off the rim, and ones that index off the case head, which is more accurate. Ones without a stop that go by feel, and ones that have a stop, which is more accurate.
First a good tool for measuring the depth is needed. My digital calipers were not good enough.
I found that my bench tool that goes off the rim and my feel, gave me a ES of over .010. My "feel" sucks.
I am now using a tool with a stop, that goes off the rim, in the press, and am getting .0025 ES. I can get it smaller if I want by measuring each case and going back into the press, but with the stop it cannot go any deeper, just shallower by my feel.
I can live with the .0025 for now, but have another set up that I have not finished that indexes off the base, and has a stop.

 

[Bob3700]

So please educate me on primer seating depth. So the $700 tool can consistently seat primers to a depth variation of @.0005”. How has that depth consistency increased ur scores? Are u wieghing the primers as well?

 

[Dgd6mm]

I use a RCBS benchtop priming tool.
Love it. Accuracy is good to better than good on target.
Chronograph numbers are definitely liveable for what I do.

 

[rlporter507]

Got my PCPS set up on my Zero press this week. This primer tool works really well and by my calibrated eye, very consistent. My only gripe is that the turret head will not rotate completely as the tool hits the body of the press the way I have the tool set up. We'll see how much of a gripe this remains.

I set the die so it will clear the press when you turn the turret, and just put some blue tape on the priming ram to hold it up, turns fine.

 

[rlporter507]

So please educate me on primer seating depth. So the $700 tool can consistently seat primers to a depth variation of @.0005”. How has that depth consistency increased ur scores? Are u wieghing the primers as well?

this might help

 

[Sandstorm]

just a little crush....its a fineness thing....Not too much and not too little....lol

 

[Bob3700]

this might help

So to go to the Cliff’s notes on his research: bottoming the primer in the pocket produced the best results. The primer not being fully seated or seated to “crush” saw negative results.
With any good priming tool ( Sinclair or PMA) u can certainly feel when thr primer “ bottoms” out in the pocket. With the Sinclair tool, it captures/ holds the case and u can adjust the seating depth with the length of the seating stem. While the Sinclair tool does not have a calibrated seating stem, it still is micro adjustable to the brass u are using.
If u have not uniformed the primer pockets to a consistent depth, then the fixed depth priming tools are providing a variation ( less than fully seated) in depth.
That is what I took away from the video.

 

[Sandstorm]

That is what I took away from the video.

Always do your own testing to be certain it fits your application is my motto.
YMMV

 

[rijndael]

If u have not uniformed the primer pockets to a consistent depth, then the fixed depth priming tools are providing a variation ( less than fully seated) in depth.

I think the answer is to not seat to flush.

If you seat to something like .004" of crush, and you come up with a slightly deeper pocket ... say .003" deeper, you'll be at .001" of crush .... the key is you're still crushed.

 

[rlporter507]

Yes the pockets have to be uniform, I think the idea is to get consistent first, pockets and crush, then experiment what amount of crush works best for you. and consistent can be a plus or minus amount that your happy with, doesn't have to be dead on.
then you have the variance of the primer itself, which cant be controlled, so its never going to come out exact, but within a range you can control or live with.
I try to have everything as consistent as I can, I think that it should make the rounds shoot closer the the same spot.
I heard it said that someone did 20 things to there brass and only 10 worked. they just didn't know which 10!!

 

[jghoghunter]

Yes the pockets have to be uniform, I think the idea is to get consistent first, pockets and crush, then experiment what amount of crush works best for you. and consistent can be a plus or minus amount that your happy with, doesn't have to be dead on.
then you have the variance of the primer itself, which cant be controlled, so its never going to come out exact, but within a range you can control or live with.
I try to have everything as consistent as I can, I think that it should make the rounds shoot closer the the same spot.
I heard it said that someone did 20 things to there brass and only 10 worked. they just didn't know which 10!!

Primers can be measured accurately with an "accuracy one" tool. Which will also accurately measure your primer pockets after they have been "uniformed".

Precision Primer Gauge

The Precision Primer Gauge takes precision measurements of primer pocket depth and the depth of seated primers in relationship to the face of the case head.

bullettipping.com

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Got my PCPS set up on my Zero press this week. This primer tool works really well and by my calibrated eye, very consistent. My only gripe is that the turret head will not rotate completely as the tool hits the body of the press the way I have the tool set up. We'll see how much of a gripe this remains.

mine doesn't, just adjust the die up a little...

 

[rlporter507]

Primers can be measured accurately with an "accuracy one" tool. Which will also accurately measure your primer pockets after they have been "uniformed".

Precision Primer Gauge

The Precision Primer Gauge takes precision measurements of primer pocket depth and the depth of seated primers in relationship to the face of the case head.

bullettipping.com

this is the tool I chose, there are several on the market that will do a good job. I was amazed how much variance there was in my priming depth, I have loaded on a bench priming tool for 20 years, and always felt it hit bottom, or so I thought, and after putting them into a box, I would feel that all primers were below the case head. and they were. As the measuring tool proved, my feel sucks!!!
I'm curious how many people that seat by feel, which would be pressure not depth, if they had a good tool and measured they might be amazed as I was.
Ignorance was bliss in my case.

 

[jghoghunter]

this is the tool I chose, there are several on the market that will do a good job. I was amazed how much variance there was in my priming depth, I have loaded on a bench priming tool for 20 years, and always felt it hit bottom, or so I thought, and after putting them into a box, I would feel that all primers were below the case head. and they were. As the measuring tool proved, my feel sucks!!!
I'm curious how many people that seat by feel, which would be pressure not depth, if they had a good tool and measured they might be amazed as I was.
Ignorance was bliss in my case.

I was the same way. Thought I was doing well and a friend stop in with his accuracy one tool and I was showed that I was not as near as good as I thought I was. Lol! That's when I bought the PCPS and I've been happy since even if it's in only my mind. Before anybody says anything I use the tool to measure all my primer pocket depths after they've been uniformed made sure they were correct and the same. You can also use the tool to measure the height of your primers and sort them that way. Just doing this for accuracy won't amount to a hill of beans but it's all the little things that you do that will gain you that extra 100th or 2/100 hopefully. Just enough to beat out your buddy!

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

I was the same way. Thought I was doing well and a friend stop in with his accuracy one tool and I was showed that I was not as near as good as I thought I was. Lol! That's when I bought the PCPS and I've been happy since even if it's in only my mind. Before anybody says anything I use the tool to measure all my primer pocket depths after they've been uniformed made sure they were correct and the same. You can also use the tool to measure the height of your primers and sort them that way. Just doing this for accuracy won't amount to a hill of beans but it's all the little things that you do that will gain you that extra 100th or 2/100 hopefully. Just enough to beat out your buddy!

for me its peace of mind, knowing that any sort of inconsistencies isn't coming from my primer seating depth

 

[BoydAllen]

even though i highly respect bryan, i feel his assessment of the cps was erroneous. some sort of user error, his consistency numbers were WAY out of line with what that unit is capable of.

Only way his numbers were that bad was if he had the worst lot of brass for rim thickness in history. did you watch my video where i achieved sub +/- 1/2 thou consistency with my cps and ugly pcps?

I believe that he used the same lot of brass for testing all tools.

 

[misser]

yep just ordered the

DERRACO ENGINEERING Poorman's PCPS Precision Priming die/Primer Seating Tool ​

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

I believe that he used the same lot of brass for testing all tools.

i talked to him and he said that he used another gentlemans primal rights for testing (gentleman was present during his test), and he said knows of other people that have the same issue he did.

all i know is that across like 10 different cartridges i load for, using lapua, remington, hornady, winchester, federal brass, that i always get very consistent primer seating depths that directly contrasts his results with that tool.

i don't believe that bryan's test was a fair representation of what that tool is capable of, but hey, its just testing. bryan collects awesome data with his skils, experience, and methodology, but like any other testing, just because one person got this result doesn't mean that its some end all be all fact for every data point.