What is the most consistent priming tool for seating depth/feel/etc. What do you like and why?
Thanks!
Thanks!
What is the most consistent priming tool
- Thread starter rain164845
- Start date
stool
poor question in my opinion..
all primers should be seated to the bottom of the primer pocket and given a small crush....002 or so...
priming tools do not do this, consistant priming pockets do....
all most any tool will do if the brass is correct to begin with.
all primers should be seated to the bottom of the primer pocket and given a small crush....002 or so...
priming tools do not do this, consistant priming pockets do....
all most any tool will do if the brass is correct to begin with.
rain164845 said:
21st Century single primer hand tool. I love it. Very good feel seating and adjustable to fit my liking. And that tool is top notch quality
I switched to a K&M priming tool with the indicator , it does take a tad longer to do the priming process but it does do 2 things... It lets you know if your pockets truly are uniform and it meausures the hieght of the primers... A bit spendy for a priming tool but it works very nice.
Noticed a small improvement in both group avg's and velocity ES's scince using it.
I did notice that the deck hieght #'s could be tweaked by not having the shell holder tightened in the same spot so i had a shimstock washer put underneath so when it is tightened it is positively stopped from moving... I suppose an O-ring would do the same thing.
Noticed a small improvement in both group avg's and velocity ES's scince using it.
I did notice that the deck hieght #'s could be tweaked by not having the shell holder tightened in the same spot so i had a shimstock washer put underneath so when it is tightened it is positively stopped from moving... I suppose an O-ring would do the same thing.
Dimwit Flathead
It's the Juggernaut, Bitch!
Pay attention to Patch700. The K&M is the only priming tool that can seat primers precisely every time. Any other manufacturer's claims are misleading. If you are truly seeking consistent ammo the K&M is a must-have. Shell out and don't look back.
thekriebles
Gold $$ Contributor
johara1 said:
+1 on comments above.
Nobody likes the auto feed models like the Lee or RCBS? I realize that accuracy is the name of the game, even with seating primers, but just curious.
I have recently started uniforming the pockets and use the table mount auto prime from RCBS, the primers seat perfect depth every time once you bottom them in the pocket.
I certainly do not agree with a statement made above about a "Crush 0.002" which I believe is asking for trouble. There should be no crush what so ever.
"Poor question", I think the question is perfectly fine.
The most consistant priming tool... or more so method. Is, uniform primer pockets. Use any of the hand primer tools you like but....learn how to use them and DO NOT exert any pressure on the primer as it should seat without force. Soft primers with pressure you will squash the cup, pre load the anvil or whatever to the stage of causing failures. Seen that at a Range just recently and also not using a 21st properly where the primers were not seated enough. Result, misfires.
I don't believe in using a reloading press to seat primers as you will cause what was mentioned above. The hand type are fine, the likes of the K&M even better as it gives you a very light feel and knowledge of exactly how much pressure it takes to just seat that primer to the bottom of the pocket and that's all it needs. Plus you can easily pick a loose primer pocket, no amount of "crush" will fix that. The Lee & RCBS I have seen numerous times primers not inline, sideways or whatever and you don't know until you try and get the case out of the primer seating tool.
Irrespective, treat them with care and don't force anything.
"Poor question", I think the question is perfectly fine.
The most consistant priming tool... or more so method. Is, uniform primer pockets. Use any of the hand primer tools you like but....learn how to use them and DO NOT exert any pressure on the primer as it should seat without force. Soft primers with pressure you will squash the cup, pre load the anvil or whatever to the stage of causing failures. Seen that at a Range just recently and also not using a 21st properly where the primers were not seated enough. Result, misfires.
I don't believe in using a reloading press to seat primers as you will cause what was mentioned above. The hand type are fine, the likes of the K&M even better as it gives you a very light feel and knowledge of exactly how much pressure it takes to just seat that primer to the bottom of the pocket and that's all it needs. Plus you can easily pick a loose primer pocket, no amount of "crush" will fix that. The Lee & RCBS I have seen numerous times primers not inline, sideways or whatever and you don't know until you try and get the case out of the primer seating tool.
Irrespective, treat them with care and don't force anything.
2thou preload(crush) from the indicated K&M works perfect. It is the most consistent standard for primer seating, even while pockets have not been taken to a standard depth.
When pockets ARE uniformed, primers ARE culled by height, AND you set primers to exactly 2thou crush, you've done as good as you can do with primer seating. Every primer is then set to go off at the same energy(force & speed).
Then it's a matter of calibrating your striking system for best results(force & speed) with those particular primers.. Oh yeah, there are still abstracts to it.
But the 21st century does not do what the K&M does. The Sinclair does not do what the K&M does.
There is no other seater even close to what the K&M does, and you will not get better seating from any of them.
If you think otherwise, it's because you haven't investigated it.
I would suggest a simple comparison of the mechanical workings between the K&M and others, but the K&M is really too complicated to understand without holding one to figure out. In operation you zero it's indicator to both individual primer height and individual primer pocket depth, at the same time, before seating that primer to that pocket to exactly 2thou crush at the same time.
It's not a race, but like hand die operations you get good with it after a while.
Whether you have an indicated K&M or not, you really need to understand that you aren't seating better with another tool.
When pockets ARE uniformed, primers ARE culled by height, AND you set primers to exactly 2thou crush, you've done as good as you can do with primer seating. Every primer is then set to go off at the same energy(force & speed).
Then it's a matter of calibrating your striking system for best results(force & speed) with those particular primers.. Oh yeah, there are still abstracts to it.
But the 21st century does not do what the K&M does. The Sinclair does not do what the K&M does.
There is no other seater even close to what the K&M does, and you will not get better seating from any of them.
If you think otherwise, it's because you haven't investigated it.
I would suggest a simple comparison of the mechanical workings between the K&M and others, but the K&M is really too complicated to understand without holding one to figure out. In operation you zero it's indicator to both individual primer height and individual primer pocket depth, at the same time, before seating that primer to that pocket to exactly 2thou crush at the same time.
It's not a race, but like hand die operations you get good with it after a while.
Whether you have an indicated K&M or not, you really need to understand that you aren't seating better with another tool.
Lapua40X
California Hunter Education Instructor
I use the K&M PDMOD-AA (https://www.kmshooting.com/catalog/primer-seater-tools/primer-deluxe.html) I like it because, once I've adjusted the setting for the primer seating depth, every successive primer is seated exactly the same; regardless of how much hand pressure I might apply to the tool. I disagree with the ".002 crush" because, IMO, it deforms the primer's anvil and/or distorts the shape of the primer cup in the pocket. If the primer pocket won't hold the primer when it's in contact with the bottom of the pocket it's time to replace the case.
See the thing is, you're wrong in every aspect about primer crush.
For one, it's expected that you will bottom primers to their pockets. Do you think there is not crush in this action?
Just consider the factors affecting seating forces.
Let me put it another way, when you use an indicated K&M the first thing you might learn, because you are now measuring actual seating, is that 'feel' is highly deceiving.
The K&M primer tool itself is pretty robust. It's very smooth and has a lot of travel(leverage). Even with this, if you were to seat every measured primer/pocket with your eyes closed and then check your accuracy, you would find high variance in crush. Some of them will not actually be bottomed, and some will be way past 2thou into bottom.
That you cannot bottom primers consistently by feel is not really a matter of the tool. The primer cups themselves vary in dimension and hardness. Their fit & friction vary with pockets.
When you set that crush, which is not so much as to damage the pellet, you directly couple the pellet to the cup in consistent form. Now primer striking is directly coupled to the pellet, with no energy loss to further cup seating, or further pellet coupling prior to crush. If you've over-crushed a pellet or two here & there, they'll still fire, but is it the same?
Well, let me add something to it; CCIs actually like 5thou of crush over 2thou. Feds don't. They all fire, but ES changes.
For one, it's expected that you will bottom primers to their pockets. Do you think there is not crush in this action?
Just consider the factors affecting seating forces.
Let me put it another way, when you use an indicated K&M the first thing you might learn, because you are now measuring actual seating, is that 'feel' is highly deceiving.
The K&M primer tool itself is pretty robust. It's very smooth and has a lot of travel(leverage). Even with this, if you were to seat every measured primer/pocket with your eyes closed and then check your accuracy, you would find high variance in crush. Some of them will not actually be bottomed, and some will be way past 2thou into bottom.
That you cannot bottom primers consistently by feel is not really a matter of the tool. The primer cups themselves vary in dimension and hardness. Their fit & friction vary with pockets.
When you set that crush, which is not so much as to damage the pellet, you directly couple the pellet to the cup in consistent form. Now primer striking is directly coupled to the pellet, with no energy loss to further cup seating, or further pellet coupling prior to crush. If you've over-crushed a pellet or two here & there, they'll still fire, but is it the same?
Well, let me add something to it; CCIs actually like 5thou of crush over 2thou. Feds don't. They all fire, but ES changes.
I pay close attention as I am seating primers and as soon as I feel it touch I stop
[br]mikecr said:
Mike, I use a bench-mounted RCBS Automatic Priming Tool. Primer seating is done standing so that I can put my weight on the handle. My ES runs 5-9 fps in .300 WSM and holds vertical pretty well at 1000. Norma primer pockets are not uniformed although I do use a Sinclair uniformer to clean the "corners" after pin tumbling. The same procedure is used for several cartridges and primers with similar results. I have no idea what my primers "like" or how much "crush" but they seem to perform well doing it this way.
As applies to the rifle cartridges I shoot: .223 rem 6ppc 6mmBR 22BR 30BR 243WSSM
I used to be a bottom "feel" guy. After taking part in a little experiment that measured the actual seating depth of 10 primers I seated by "feel" along with 4 other feely guys, I switched to the K&M with the dial indicator. There is no other primer seater that does what it can do if used correctly.There is really a difference in the ignition of the cartridge if seated correctly-i.e. with a .002" to .003" crush.
Yes it is slow. Yes it costs more than a Lee hand seater. Yes it could have better leverage. No, there is nothing I have seen to compare. Using it is one of the few things I have done in case prep that had an immediate and demonstrable effect on my groups.
I used to be a bottom "feel" guy. After taking part in a little experiment that measured the actual seating depth of 10 primers I seated by "feel" along with 4 other feely guys, I switched to the K&M with the dial indicator. There is no other primer seater that does what it can do if used correctly.There is really a difference in the ignition of the cartridge if seated correctly-i.e. with a .002" to .003" crush.
Yes it is slow. Yes it costs more than a Lee hand seater. Yes it could have better leverage. No, there is nothing I have seen to compare. Using it is one of the few things I have done in case prep that had an immediate and demonstrable effect on my groups.
The military standard for re-consolidation of rifle primers requires .002 to .006 crush (reconsolidation). Reconsolidation is the act of forcing the anvil to contact the primer pellet.
The data was provided for Olin manufactured primers.
You can find this data in the MDC A0514 document.
This is a McDonnell Douglas technical design requirements manual
The title is "Percussion Primers, Design Requirements"
This document discusses the standard primer mixes, firing pin design, impact energy, primer cup indent, reconsolidation, flash hole, back up disc and baffling.
The data was provided for Olin manufactured primers.
You can find this data in the MDC A0514 document.
This is a McDonnell Douglas technical design requirements manual
The title is "Percussion Primers, Design Requirements"
This document discusses the standard primer mixes, firing pin design, impact energy, primer cup indent, reconsolidation, flash hole, back up disc and baffling.
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