What is a good torch for annealing?

[Boomer79]

I am currently using a torch that has a broad blue flame and would prefer a more narrow blue flame so that I can isolate the junction of the neck and the shoulder. Where can I buy it. Two different Home Depots only had the broad flames

 

[BigDMT]

ebay

 

[tenring]

Bernzomatic with MAP gas

 

[jlow]

One of the torch I have which I don’t use for annealing is a Bernzomatic Micro Torch – this one:

http://www.bernzomatic.com/item.html?id=46

They also have this one:

http://www.bernzomatic.com/item.html?id=43

They both provide pin point narrow blue flame but their disadvantage is that they don’t work off a large bottle and needs to be charged. Home Depot probably have the first one. If you don’t do a lot of brass this way, it may work for you.

 

[jlow]

MAP gas is too hot....

 

[spclark]

I'd try any Ace or True Value hardware store first.

That said, I'm using a 30 year-old Bernz-o-Matic propane torch I used to put the water pipes in my last house.

I'd avoid MAPP as most retail cylinders aren't really true MAPP-filled & for the price bump propane works just as well for annealing cases.

 

[Boomer79]

Is there a torch with an adjustable flame that would be easier to control?

 

[jlow]

That micro torch is fully adjustable. You can download the instructions at the website.

 

[BigDMT]

Bernz-o-matic TS4000T or TS8000.
Both have adjustable fuel valve, push button electric start, and trigger lock to hold flame. But the best thing is that if you ever get an annealing machine, it will fit right in the torch head holders. Some of these little micro torches will not.

 

[jlow]

There are a number of reasons why I don’t use the micro torch for annealing.

1) I like the borad blue flame as I want to anneal the entire neck and shoulder. The narrower the flame, the more likely that you will get uneven annealing even with a machine.

2) Like BigDMT says, the annealing machine won’t hold the micro torches but my guess if you are handy, that is any easy fix.

3) Too limited in gas supply.

 

[dkhunt14]

I like the Mapp gas because I do a case in 2.75 seconds verses 7 to 8 seconds for propane. Matt

 

[jlow]

The way I look at annealing, the whole idea is to get a good consistent reproducible anneal. Speed is not a factor since I use a BenchSource and it goes through brass more than quick enough.

What you will find is past a certain point, faster is not better the reason is errors has a greater impact on the consistency. Say you were off by 0.5 seconds which is not a lot of time. With an 8 second anneal, you will be off by 6%. For a 2.75 second anneal, you will be off by 18%.

 

[Gillie Dog]

One of the annealing machine manufacturers recommends Bernz-O-Matic torch kit #UL100 or torch only #UL2317. By my estimation they have a "pointy" flame not broad flame.

These work very well for annealing my brass and are repeatable session to session by setting blue portion of the flame the same each session and then length of time in flame is very close to the same each session to get 750F indicator to melt on inside of neck.

Good luck.

GD

 

[Killshot]

..........are repeatable session to session by setting blue portion of the flame the same each session and then length of time in flame is very close to the same each session...........

Exactly. Repeatability it everything.

Next is adjustability. The Bench-Source tops that for being able to work the desired area to be annealed regardless of case dimension.

MAP? no no no no. Also no to using plumbed LP; has a higher methane content than bottled.

 

[dkhunt14]

The way I look at annealing, the whole idea is to get a good consistent reproducible anneal. Speed is not a factor since I use a BenchSource and it goes through brass more than quick enough.

What you will find is past a certain point, faster is not better the reason is errors has a greater impact on the consistency. Say you were off by 0.5 seconds which is not a lot of time. With an 8 second anneal, you will be off by 6%. For a 2.75 second anneal, you will be off by 18%.

With my annealing machine I will be within .25 second. I hope to get a video and put it on here some time. My annealing machine has 2 motors; one to spin the case and a stepper motor to turn the case into the flame and back out. It has dip switches with intervals of 1/4 second, 1/2 second, 1 second, 2 seconds, 4 seconds and 8 sec. Now you can flip more then one switch on and they add up to total time. Flip on the 2 + 1/2 + 1/4 and you have 2 3/4 seconds. It works great. You also have a switch that will bring it back away from torch and turn upside down and vibrate and dump the case if you so choose. My annealing is very good and believe it has helped me set the 7 world records that I have broke in 1000 yard Benchrest. Matt

 

[dkhunt14]

I agree with you TOM. The Dasher is a lot harder to figure out. I think it has to do with a lot thinner neck and a lot less hold on the bullet. My Dashers have a .010 thous. wall and I am throated .155 so there isn't as much hold or grip on the bullet. Makes it hard to hold the bullet to shoot the bullets in. With the WSM I have 13.5 wall and am throated .200. That makes a Pressure ring on a 210 VLD right even with the neck shoulder junction. That gives a, lot more grip on the bullet. I find the Dasher shoots better the second time after annealing. At least the vertical seems more consistent. Matt

 

[jlow]

The way I look at annealing, the whole idea is to get a good consistent reproducible anneal. Speed is not a factor since I use a BenchSource and it goes through brass more than quick enough.

What you will find is past a certain point, faster is not better the reason is errors has a greater impact on the consistency. Say you were off by 0.5 seconds which is not a lot of time. With an 8 second anneal, you will be off by 6%. For a 2.75 second anneal, you will be off by 18%.

With my annealing machine I will be within .25 second. I hope to get a video and put it on here some time. My annealing machine has 2 motors; one to spin the case and a stepper motor to turn the case into the flame and back out. It has dip switches with intervals of 1/4 second, 1/2 second, 1 second, 2 seconds, 4 seconds and 8 sec. Now you can flip more then one switch on and they add up to total time. Flip on the 2 + 1/2 + 1/4 and you have 2 3/4 seconds. It works great. You also have a switch that will bring it back away from torch and turn upside down and vibrate and dump the case if you so choose. My annealing is very good and believe it has helped me set the 7 world records that I have broke in 1000 yard Benchrest. Matt

Sorry but I might be super impressed with your shooting but I am not impressed with your method as suggested for common consumption.

It’s like a guy who says I only slice my apples with throwing knives and the apple sitting on my wife’s head. It’s great that you can do it but, logic wise, unless you gives all the caveats and conditions, it just plain poor advice.

Bragging is just bad form, especially for someone who is already established like you.

 

[jlow]

The way I look at annealing, the whole idea is to get a good consistent reproducible anneal. Speed is not a factor since I use a BenchSource and it goes through brass more than quick enough.

What you will find is past a certain point, faster is not better the reason is errors has a greater impact on the consistency. Say you were off by 0.5 seconds which is not a lot of time. With an 8 second anneal, you will be off by 6%. For a 2.75 second anneal, you will be off by 18%.

With my annealing machine I will be within .25 second. I hope to get a video and put it on here some time. My annealing machine has 2 motors; one to spin the case and a stepper motor to turn the case into the flame and back out. It has dip switches with intervals of 1/4 second, 1/2 second, 1 second, 2 seconds, 4 seconds and 8 sec. Now you can flip more then one switch on and they add up to total time. Flip on the 2 + 1/2 + 1/4 and you have 2 3/4 seconds. It works great. You also have a switch that will bring it back away from torch and turn upside down and vibrate and dump the case if you so choose. My annealing is very good and believe it has helped me set the 7 world records that I have broke in 1000 yard Benchrest. Matt

Sorry but I might be super impressed with your shooting but I am not impressed with your method as suggested for common consumption.

It’s like a guy who says I only slice my apples with throwing knives and the apple sitting on my wife’s head. It’s great that you can do it but, logic wise, unless you gives all the caveats and conditions, it just plain poor advice.

Bragging is just bad form, especially for someone who is already established like you.

Hi Matt – thanks for the mails, sorry if I came across rude, must be getting feisty in my old age..

The more I talk to people about annealing, the more I realize some of the lack of consensus relates to different goals. Seems like there are three camps.

There is the annealer who just wants to soften the neck to prevent neck splits and to lengthen the life of their brass. This group can accept a significant amount of variability.

Then there is the annealer who wants to get their brass back to factory specs i.e. maintain significant neck tension. This group I think has the hardest job as they really don’t want soft necks but a slight but reproducible reduction in the degree of work hardening.

The last group would be the bench rest shooter who is actually looking for a soft neck to reduce the influence of neck tension. They can in fact accept a certain degree of variability as the softness of the neck has less influence on accuracy/precision.

So what this means to me is one size in fact does not fit all and why some people can get away with the socket/drill approach and others can anneal to what others would think is too much but is actually having great success with their product.

 

[LHSmith]

The last group would be the bench rest shooter who is actually looking for a soft neck to reduce the influence of neck tension. They can in fact accept a certain degree of variability as the softness of the neck has less influence on accuracy/precision.

NO....NO....and just plain WRONG assumption.
Winning credentials in Registered Benchrest Competition represents real world proven -documented performance......and THAT trumps all the internet theories ever concocted. Now I know why fewer and fewer accomplished shooters are willing to share their hard-earned knowledge on these sites.

 

[Raythemanroe]

I Bernz-o-matic but think this cat can be skinned many ways...Matt I would like to see the video