Help! Correct annealing torch height?

[wedgy]

If all else fails watch it on Youtube.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Erik, are you using tempilaq crayon or liquid to get the correct temperature? Can you explain how you do that?

Thanks,
Joe

I no longer use tempilaq. I tried it at first but could not get good results... it is a PIA.

I simply watch the necks in low light, as soon as they start to change color (orange), the case moves away from the heat.

 

[ShootDots]

Erik, are you using tempilaq crayon or liquid to get the correct temperature? Can you explain how you do that?

Thanks,
Joe

I no longer use tempilaq. I tried it at first but could not get good results... it is a PIA.

I simply watch the necks in low light, as soon as they start to change color (orange), the case moves away from the heat.

EXACTLY!! I do the same thing... Works excellent!

 

[marwitz89]

Thanks Erik, that is actually almost exactly the method I was using as I also could not get reliable readings from the tempilaq. I was told however that after you see the very faint red / purple color on the brass to turn the speed on the annealer up slightly (about half a second). Some stated that if you can see any color, even a little, it is too hot.

 

[CatShooter]

Some stated that if you can see any color, even a little, it is too hot.

I think Lapua didn't get that memo....

 

[CaptainMal]

I think it looks too low. Reason #2 is I do not want a direct torch on my shoulders. I anneal the neck and surely the top or maybe all of the neck gets it also. Lower the torches and you surely heat the shoulder but also the body. I don't want much of that.

I anneal the necks and let the shoulder take care of itself.

 

[Erik Cortina]

Some stated that if you can see any color, even a little, it is too hot.

I think Lapua didn't get that memo....

He meant color change on brass as it is being annealed. He was referring to the heated part of the brass getting orange from the heat.

 

[XTR]

You guys are making this a lot harder than it needs to be.

I'm not picking on Erik here, but he is probably one of the most OCD guys on this site, if he tells you you are making it hard, then you are way beyond making it hard.

 

[Jeff Conover]

That Lapua case was annealed before the shoulder was formed. This is to prevent shoulder folds during the case forming process. If the cases are polished after the loading the anneal is not visible.

Jeff Conover
DoD Quality Rep

 

[hkfan45]

You guys are making this a lot harder than it needs to be.

I start machine with brass loaded and on first case as it is turning I aim torches at shoulder. The case rotates for 5 seconds and that is all the time I need to set up torches. Heat will migrate to the neck anyway, so it is not super critical as long as you don't aim it too far down the body of the case.

I set up my blue flame tip to just touch the cases as I find that easy to repeat and adjust timer from there.

If you haven't done this much, get yourself 5 old cases and set timer at max. Use the 5 cases to adjust torch angle and set those 5 cases aside for next time. After a while you will no longer need them.

I see you set up the torch distance from the case so that the inner blue flame tip touches the shoulder. Do you use the torches at full power, or a smaller flame? Reason I ask is that I tried this setup, with the inner blue flame tip touching the case shoulder at max power, and it took very few revolutions (under 3 seconds) until the case neck was red hot.

 

[Erik Cortina]

You guys are making this a lot harder than it needs to be.

I start machine with brass loaded and on first case as it is turning I aim torches at shoulder. The case rotates for 5 seconds and that is all the time I need to set up torches. Heat will migrate to the neck anyway, so it is not super critical as long as you don't aim it too far down the body of the case.

I set up my blue flame tip to just touch the cases as I find that easy to repeat and adjust timer from there.

If you haven't done this much, get yourself 5 old cases and set timer at max. Use the 5 cases to adjust torch angle and set those 5 cases aside for next time. After a while you will no longer need them.

I see you set up the torch distance from the case so that the inner blue flame tip touches the shoulder. Do you use the torches at full power, or a smaller flame? Reason I ask is that I tried this setup, with the inner blue flame tip touching the case shoulder at max power, and it took very few revolutions (under 3 seconds) until the case neck was red hot.

I guess I use them at "medium" power.
My cases take about 5 seconds. If your got red in 3 seconds, that's fine, simply adjust your timer to deal with that and you'll be fine.

 

[MrMajestic]

The advise I got and use is "make'um look like new Lapua cases". ;D Most important is not getting the base too hot.

 

[snakepit]

I guess I use them at "medium" power.
My cases take about 5 seconds. If your got red in 3 seconds, that's fine, simply adjust your timer to deal with that and you'll be fine.

Erik, is that about 5 seconds with a single torch or a dual torch machine?

 

[Erik Cortina]

I guess I use them at "medium" power.
My cases take about 5 seconds. If your got red in 3 seconds, that's fine, simply adjust your timer to deal with that and you'll be fine.

Erik, is that about 5 seconds with a single torch or a dual torch machine?

Dual torch.

 

[michaelnel]

One little trick I do is to stack 1/2 inch washers on the torch head rods so my height rock solid repeatable when changing cartriges, I either add or subtract washers to correctly position my torch heads vertically

Wow, great idea! I just got one of these machines yesterday and was trying to think of a way to make changing between .308 and 6mm BR cases repeatable. Off the the hardware store tomorrow for some 1/2" washers, thanks for the tip!

 

[hkfan45]

You guys are making this a lot harder than it needs to be.

I start machine with brass loaded and on first case as it is turning I aim torches at shoulder. The case rotates for 5 seconds and that is all the time I need to set up torches. Heat will migrate to the neck anyway, so it is not super critical as long as you don't aim it too far down the body of the case.

I set up my blue flame tip to just touch the cases as I find that easy to repeat and adjust timer from there.

If you haven't done this much, get yourself 5 old cases and set timer at max. Use the 5 cases to adjust torch angle and set those 5 cases aside for next time. After a while you will no longer need them.

I see you set up the torch distance from the case so that the inner blue flame tip touches the shoulder. Do you use the torches at full power, or a smaller flame? Reason I ask is that I tried this setup, with the inner blue flame tip touching the case shoulder at max power, and it took very few revolutions (under 3 seconds) until the case neck was red hot.

I guess I use them at "medium" power.
My cases take about 5 seconds. If your got red in 3 seconds, that's fine, simply adjust your timer to deal with that and you'll be fine.

Is this where you have the inner blue flame hit the case? The red straw indicates where on the case the inner flame hits.

 

[falconpilot]

I do mine just like Erik. Tumble clean, polish brass first to get rid of any carbon. Using dual torches, timer set 4 3/4-5, one aimed at neck, other at neck shoulder junction. I do use green tempilaq(400 degree) down side of case while adjusting torches and make sure that it never changes color within 1 1/2" of case base.

 

[Erik Cortina]

You guys are making this a lot harder than it needs to be.

I start machine with brass loaded and on first case as it is turning I aim torches at shoulder. The case rotates for 5 seconds and that is all the time I need to set up torches. Heat will migrate to the neck anyway, so it is not super critical as long as you don't aim it too far down the body of the case.

I set up my blue flame tip to just touch the cases as I find that easy to repeat and adjust timer from there.

If you haven't done this much, get yourself 5 old cases and set timer at max. Use the 5 cases to adjust torch angle and set those 5 cases aside for next time. After a while you will no longer need them.

I see you set up the torch distance from the case so that the inner blue flame tip touches the shoulder. Do you use the torches at full power, or a smaller flame? Reason I ask is that I tried this setup, with the inner blue flame tip touching the case shoulder at max power, and it took very few revolutions (under 3 seconds) until the case neck was red hot.

I guess I use them at "medium" power.
My cases take about 5 seconds. If your got red in 3 seconds, that's fine, simply adjust your timer to deal with that and you'll be fine.

Is this where you have the inner blue flame hit the case? The red straw indicates where on the case the inner flame hits.

Yes, that's a good place. I would do the other one where the shoulder meets the body. It's really not that critical as heat will migrate towards the neck mouth anyway.

 

[JohnMill]

I'd say use the good stuff here to start to gain the experience. That's what these guys have and you need. You might as well quite talking and start doing. Two years from now you'll look back and say" I was making that a lot harder than it needed to be. Thanks EC (and everyone else)
Just one more thing; Everytime you go to the range, make a new friend. Some of you guys don't seem to have any friends that shoot. You ought not to have to reach out a couple thousand miles to answer basic questions

 

[calgarycanada]

Sorry if I'm high jacking but I have tried tempilaq and tried waiting for color change(faint red) in dark. The tempilaq melts several seconds before case neck changes color.
I have even tried 850 degree Fahrenheit tempilaq inside the neck and it melts way before any colour change, literally several seconds before any hint of color change of brass.
I never get that nice Lapua like neck colour.
Erick do you think I'm doing it wrong? Should I ditch tempilaq all together and stick with brass changing color??

Just to test, I just tried it again, using tempilaq and single torch set at medium it took 5.6 seconds of dwell time to melt 750 deg tempilaq. Then I tried 3 more pieces, I kept on increasing dwell and torch intensity. It took 10.5 seconds with torch at full for brass to start changing colour.

Which way is correct???