Vortex Viper vs Leupold vx-3

[tbs]

tbeasley,

I did learn an important leason from all this and that is to stick with what you know. From now on it's Weaver T series for target, always a smart choice. Grand Slams for general purpose hunting and for a cheap alternative on the rimfires the Simmons 22 mag series works really good for the price of a nice dinner out. If I'm feeling real frisky maybe a Swarovski for my next rifle!!!!!!!!

 

[kapac]

You are the very first person that I have ever encountered that did not like Vortex. What was your issue and did you allow Vortex the opportunity to correct it? I now own 3 Vipers and for the money, they are fantastic, vs anything else available IMO. I am curious about your problem.

I knew you would step off in this discussion and spred your vast knowledge on the subject, as you often do. I think I purdy much summed it up for ya, with very poor quality along with very poor glass. Not much more to explain?

That is one of the reasons for such a "best in the business warranty", kinda like Chevy, they need it!!

You want me to explain why its that way? Because its just another company tryin to make a buck and either skipping steps or hiring untrained employees or both.

If you want a good piece of glass at a great price get you a Minox.

Oh and just because Jerry Miculek is using one I am supposed to go out and get one? I know thats how they want it to work but I am a bit smarter than that. Course we would all shoot them in public if we were to be getting not only paid to do it but get the said product for free!!

 

[McKinneyMike]

Somehow I really have to wonder just who has really tried a Vortex product that is doing all of this bad mouthing. Just makes one wonder given their loyalty from actual users and owners. Again this is the first sporting optics forum where I have encountered anything negative about Vortex at all. I wonder why that is? Oh well to each their own I guess.

 

[McKinneyMike]

You are the very first person that I have ever encountered that did not like Vortex. What was your issue and did you allow Vortex the opportunity to correct it? I now own 3 Vipers and for the money, they are fantastic, vs anything else available IMO. I am curious about your problem.

I knew you would step off in this discussion and spred your vast knowledge on the subject, as you often do. I think I purdy much summed it up for ya, with very poor quality along with very poor glass. Not much more to explain?

That is one of the reasons for such a "best in the business warranty", kinda like Chevy, they need it!!

You want me to explain why its that way? Because its just another company tryin to make a buck and either skipping steps or hiring untrained employees or both.

If you want a good piece of glass at a great price get you a Minox.

Oh and just because Jerry Miculek is using one I am supposed to go out and get one? I know thats how they want it to work but I am a bit smarter than that. Course we would all shoot them in public if we were to be getting not only paid to do it but get the said product for free!!

Look I have no idea who you are, but you are not Jerry Miculek either, paid or otherwise! I never attacked anyone personally and your childishness is obvious. if i hurt your feelings, my apologies.
If you have some "real" information" about Vortex, i would love to see it, as it just a lot BS that I am reading here, with regards to their products. I have to wonder if those doing the bashing are not reps from other optics firms. Just makes no sense how anyone that has any personal experience with this company or their products could have such diametrically opposed results from people on the other large sporting optics forums.

 

[zcrackshot]

I have read what everybody has said about their opinions and very few real experiences with Vortex. I own a Viper and have owned Crossfires. I have Nightforce, Leupold, Zeiss, and various other higher end scopes and some lower end as well. Brands that I have been truly impressed with for the money are........ Leupold (used pricing), Weaver, and Nikon. That'll probably create a stir on here but I didn't mention Vortex. I didn't say I didn't like Votex, just that thus far I'm not impressed with the scope for the price I paid. I didn't buy my Viper used so for $500 I see it for what it's worth. The more I use it the more I get the feeling it won't have a place on my rifle for much longer. Just my personal preferences. Mike seems to be sold on them and that's great for him; as he stated, to each his own. I worked in retail sales for over 9 years in audio equipment and the one thing I learned is that if you badmouth something that someone is a fan of........ THEY'RE NOT BUYING ANYTHING FROM YOU! You can't make someone believe something that you can't physically show them. Your opinion as a salesman is just that, an opinion. Mike is sold on them and many others of you are not. Please share your opinion, I love to read about them. I really don't care to read about someone's thoughts on 'trash' though. I won't own another Crossfire as they sound like a bag of bells if you shake them and won't hold a zero if bumped very hard. The Viper seems to hold zero just fine and tracks well but like I said earlier I have issues with the parallax which is excessive for any scope in this price range.

 

[tbeasley]

well lets see, i did say "But they are ok for the money" Yes I have field tested them, had three Vipers that I've mounted and did load testing with for others. The first Viper was bad, "everybody is entitled to a bad apple" I got my one out of the way. Since then I have ordered another Viper and Crossfire and both customers liked them. I will say that there is room for improvement on the Vipers and they can do this and I would be all over them. 1) make the glass just a little better (get the fish bowl affect out of them) 2) More reticle options.
No Need to change the finish and or the build quality...thus superb already!! There power adjustment knob is good and so is the elevationa/windage knobs, they have repeatablity. If they change just those 2 items listed above with little to no price change, I'd reccommend them all day everyday...but you get what you pay for.
Like I told a customer one day "sort of like a lottery scratch ticket, just not to that extreme"
Later

 

[McKinneyMike]

I would imagine that the standard Viper series will most likely go away as of SHOT show, as they have a new line up of scopes, the HS series, that falls into this same price category. The Crossfires are a less expensive scope that I wish that they would simply do away with period, but they want that market too. I would never buy a scope in that price range anyway, so I guess i shouldn't worry about those.
The parallex issue is real, I will agree, but to me it is minor and the pluses of these scopes (in my case the 6.5-20X50's) outshine that issue for me. I find the glass has far better contrast than other scopes in this price range and they do not suffer from ghosting like the Bushnell 4200 series does in strong sunlight. The Vipers have more elevation/windage adjustment than the other scopes in this category too. It is a $500.00 scope and I would never compare it to a NF, IOR, S&B, March, etc. I personally do not care for modern Leupold offerings as the price vs performance is not there for me today. I still own a couple of Nikon Monarch's that to my eyes have better glass than the VX-3 scopes that I once owned, but I will say that the Leupold is a good scope, just not worth their asking price IMO.
The Viper PST series is one of the most sought after scopes anywhere and it was just finally released, after Vortex decided that the turret assembly design did not offer the type of tactical feel that they wanted before their release and pulled the line until a new and better design could be implemented. This speaks volumes about their desires to offer quality products to their customers to me.
People can and will have their likes and dislikes, but to trash one of the finest optics companies today is not just stupid, it reeks of bashing without knowledge. Again buy what you feel is value to you, but to knock scopes of this caliber speaks loudly about the people posting IMO. I am amazed at the posts that I have read in this thread over the past few days. Simply amazed.

 

[CoverDog]

You get what you pay for, repeat,,

Not always...This is not about scopes but a $4500.00 Kimber Valier Gr.II SxS shotgun. Kimber would not do warranty work within the warranty period, and their shotgun Guru outright lied to me.

As I stated earlier, the warranty is only as good as the company behind it.

I also own a Viper and plan to see what new models they have at the SHOT show.

 

[LHSmith]

Mike- with all due respect, I have found postings (some on this site) of dissatisfied Vortex users, unlike your claim that you have never seen any. To Vortex's credit, the products in question were repaired or replaced.
I researched the company, (which in order to do, I had to do many search functions....why can't they have a simple "who we are" history on their site instead of that "it's all about you, not us" section),and the most informative info was on the site AR15.com.
Although the owner began in the optics industry in 1986, it was selling birding optics. Vortex optics brand did not evolve until 2004, and the rifle scopes some time later.I'd bet it's only been 3 years tops that those on this site were aware of Vortex. I wish them the very best, but they have a difficult task outsourcing manufacturing and backing those products up with their VIP warranty. It does seem that they are serious about customer satisfaction as made evident by the warranty support behind the crossfire line and the recent delay in manufacture of their PST scope. However a small company can only absorb so much un-budgeted overhead.

 

[McKinneyMike]

I misspoke about that. I meant to say that if there were issues they were corrected to a customers satisfaction. On that point I have not found one case where the issue was not resolved quickly and in most every case, the customer was extremely pleased with their warranty and service.
It is unrealistic to imagine any company could deliver 100% perfection, but the manner in which they have stood behind everything to this point is pleasing and reassuring. Given your research as to when they became a rifle scope company, then I even more impressed with where they are today in the market. While there are never any givens in the business world, where they are today in the rifle optics market is simply incredible in less than 6 years of operation and their growing customer base. I am quite sure that this company has factored in returns as part of their business model, as again their astronomical growth rate is not a sign of idiots at the helm. They are a force and will make plenty of noise for the good IMO as they continue to grow.

 

[kapac]

You are the very first person that I have ever encountered that did not like Vortex. What was your issue and did you allow Vortex the opportunity to correct it? I now own 3 Vipers and for the money, they are fantastic, vs anything else available IMO. I am curious about your problem.

I knew you would step off in this discussion and spred your vast knowledge on the subject, as you often do. I think I purdy much summed it up for ya, with very poor quality along with very poor glass. Not much more to explain?

That is one of the reasons for such a "best in the business warranty", kinda like Chevy, they need it!!

You want me to explain why its that way? Because its just another company tryin to make a buck and either skipping steps or hiring untrained employees or both.

If you want a good piece of glass at a great price get you a Minox.

Oh and just because Jerry Miculek is using one I am supposed to go out and get one? I know thats how they want it to work but I am a bit smarter than that. Course we would all shoot them in public if we were to be getting not only paid to do it but get the said product for free!!

Ok here we go, see Mckinney you may not know me but I know how you respond in threads like this, in fact I think the last one you were so interested in was another scope topic for Hakko. I told you what would happen. See I have seen your posts before, they all turn out the same.

Number one, I am no rep nor am I Jerry Miculek where you got that I dea I will never know? Most of the problem here is your thought process, it is not up to you to "think" we are someone else, you think everyone is a rep. talking down a product or praising another, this is a forum and a damn good one!! So please try to keep how you think to yourself.

I did not realize I needed to write my experiences so that you can make your own conclusion. I have given Vortex there chance I have owned two scopes and one spotting scope and I will leave my comments as they are so no need to drag it thru dirt every little issue. Just make you decision based on Very poor glass and Very poor quality!! Nuff said.

Try to contribute to the site, they should make this site a paid site to keep this kinda BS off the site.

 

[McKinneyMike]

Another blowhard. Yes indeed this exactly what this site needs, more people just like you. If this is your "contribution", well that tells me all that I need to know about you. If you think Vortex glass is bad, you are obviously someone with either their head in their rear or just a trouble maker. I vote for the latter You remind me of another idiot over on PM forums. Always right and everyone is wrong. Not related are you

 

[Kenny474]

This is my first time reading this thread, and I am a bit disappointed with a few of the responses here. Personal attacks and insults are not called for when someone simply asks for an explanation, it just mucks up this great forum with BS that is normally found on the lesser forums. For a minute I thought I had somehow been transferred to another forum or something, as the posts I am referring to are pretty much the norm by quite a few on a certain well known "tactical" forum.

Kapac, if you have had such a bad experience with Vortex optics, why not elaborate what some of the issues are? That way others can judge for themselves what the basis for your conclusion consisted of? Simply calling something "junk" without any explanation really holds no weight and certainly looks as though you may only be posting that to get a reaction from another member. It would really validate your claim much more if you were to simply elaborate a bit, as there are many ways you could come to your conclusion. You simply could be comparing the Vortex's to a March, in which case most anything would be inferior. But if there is truly an issue with their products, then it would be a great favor to all who read this to explain it a bit more so others may take your experience and learn from it, as it's a bit difficult to look away from a product you may be interested in because someone says "It's junk because they are poorly constructed with poor glass, but I won't elaborate any more so just believe me." After commenting on the lack of site contribution from others, the least you could do is take a second to explain why you feel Vortex optics are inferior and give an example of the issues you had with them. The more detailed the response, the more it will help others in the future.

I am not taking sides here and honestly don't have a stand in the argument other than I would like some good, solid info on the Vortex optics in question. I have been considering a purchase from them, as I have read many positive reviews that state they have some of the best glass for the money and will perform very well. If there are truly issues they need to resolve or the optics are not a good value, then I would really appreciate a bit of a detailed response as to why, as the OP likely would as well.

I also apologize if I have offended anyone with my post as well, as it's not my intent. I simply don't like to see insulting replies to a simple question without any provocation. And honestly, any personal issues should be dealt with by PM, not on the open forum. Potential sponsors can see this, as well as many non-members or anyone else who happens to come here, or even anyone who searches for Vortex optics, as this thread will come up as well. We are a better forum than one that posts insults needlessly and in public, let's please act that way and set an example of what a superb forum this really is.

We all have our moments, but lets all try to restrict insults and personal arguments to PM, everyone will be better off.

I also appreciate any detailed responses to issues anyone has had with Vortex optics as well. It will really help in my decision of whether to purchase one or not, as well as the OP will likely appreciate it as well.

Kenny

 

[McKinneyMike]

Here is a very nice review from one of the most respected people that reviews rifle optics regularly, Ilya Koshkin and his take on 2011 Vortex models:

http://opticsthoughts.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=79:riflescopes-vortex&catid=9verview-of-different-companies-and-brands&Itemid=4

 

[LHSmith]

mike-that review had info I was looking for.
My next question is: Since the Razors are made in Japan, how can Vortex warrant them for lifetime, yet March insists Japanese law mandates the manufacturer can only be held liable for products for 5 years max? Is Vortex assuming all responsibility and repair costs after 5 years without any compensation from the Japanese maker? i.e. bad batch of o-rings or seals causing them to degrade over time, mat'ls not to spec causing galling in the adjustment threads after extended use.

 

[McKinneyMike]

March is not large enough to warranty for life. The company has to exceed some set amount of sales/production quota to meet the ability to offer the lifetime warranties. The Japanese have laws to regulate this issue. That is my understanding of this situation.

 

[Kenny474]

Not to mention the cost to replace a March is four or five times that of a Vortex, if not more. If March were to take responsibility for all costs of replacement parts and rebuilds after five years, they would likely cut into their bottom line quite heavily. But on the other hand, March are likely the best quality optics that money can buy, and I doubt that with proper care they would have much of any issues for years to come.

I saw production numbers on March optics somewhere, and I seem to remember the numbers were actually quite low, even less than I had expected.

Kenny

 

[zcrackshot]

+1 to Kenny! There are too many good things going for this site to muck it up with personal issues between posters. Way too much crying for my taste. If you don't like what somebody says about your favorite brand nobody cares but you. It's your favorite brand and your entitled to your opinion. Don't push it on somebody else or cry because everybody doesn't believe what you do or hasn't experienced what you have. The OP asked a question about Vortex vs' Leupold VX-3 didn't he? Share what you know of each and help the guy out or don't post. Even I got off the subject a bit and for that I apologize but keep your whining and personal issues to yourself! I'm new to the site but have chipped in to try to help keep it going as I know a good thing when I see it. I'd hate to have to leave because all there is to read about is whining and arguing.

 

[cliffe]

McKinneyMike, are you a salesman for vortex? not trying to be a smart you know what, but you sure seem to think that vortex is the best lower priced scope. cliffe

 

[McKinneyMike]

McKinneyMike, are you a salesman for vortex? not trying to be a smart you know what, but you sure seem to think that vortex is the best lower priced scope. cliffe

Not at all, but after trying about every scope in this price range, I have zero doubt that the three that I presently own are the best available under $500.00 and it would seem that the market place is starting to agree with me, except here, but not many people here seem to have tried them. If I come off as a salesman, sorry. I sell hardwood lumber I will not continue as they do not need me to impress anyone. Their market is what it is because user are liking what they are offering, they listen to their public and their warranty is one of if not the best in the industry. These are the reasons why they are becoming so popular. Just have a look around on the larger optics forums and see what people are saying about them and have been for a few years now (Viper's and Razor's). Some here would have you believe that these folks are loco and/or brainwashed by advertising. Old guard makers are paying attention though, I promise you that!