I jumped into the foray last November and still waiting for my new toy. It will be a 6-284 and it's almost here. First will be a speed contest. LOL. Then I will probably settle for accuracy. I have been loading since the early 70's and have never learned as much about the process until I started on my first ever, 'wildcat'. I'm hoping she'll have some 'sharp' claws!! Next will be a 20 Practical!
Ultimate coyote round.
- Thread starter scope eye
- Start date
Dean,
I believe your on to something here with staying a long ways from the lands. In my 22-250Imp there is no reason I can think of for how I got to the velocity levels I'm at with hardly any sign of cratering and normal bolt lift. Except that my bullets are seated very deep in the case... I haven't measured to the lands yet. But accuracy is insane good along with very good speed as well.
I believe your on to something here with staying a long ways from the lands. In my 22-250Imp there is no reason I can think of for how I got to the velocity levels I'm at with hardly any sign of cratering and normal bolt lift. Except that my bullets are seated very deep in the case... I haven't measured to the lands yet. But accuracy is insane good along with very good speed as well.
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
Why would that bother you? A thin skin has never been a survival trait. And it takes all the fun out of a shooting forum.
When you've got the goods, make 'em look foolish, then rub their nose in it for good measure.So come on, "scope eye", dish. How fast is your 257 WSSM?
I answered in a prior post but here it is again.
Well here it goes in round numbers plus or minus, the 85gr @4100 they and 80gr are @4200, 75gr @4300 and 70gr blitz kings are good for 4400 Fps I kid you not, I just got it so I haven't max them out. These are my 257 Weatherby loads that I just copied. the groupings were less than a half inch, even though my scope was to far forward and could not get comfortable.
Dean
Well here it goes in round numbers plus or minus, the 85gr @4100 they and 80gr are @4200, 75gr @4300 and 70gr blitz kings are good for 4400 Fps I kid you not, I just got it so I haven't max them out. These are my 257 Weatherby loads that I just copied. the groupings were less than a half inch, even though my scope was to far forward and could not get comfortable.
Dean
Brians356
Gold $$ Contributor
What? Those velocities are unrealistic. How did you clock them? ...
Seriously, not asking for charge weights, just which powders?
xswanted
Gold $$ Contributor
Some awful wild wildcats in this thread.....I think if I keep reading it I'll need one or two of them.
My idea of a perfect coyote gun is much different than most on this thread though....it seems with this bug bullets going that fast I'd have to guess there's quite a bit of fur damage and since I don't like sewing I like going smaller!
I think the 20-250 with 55 Bergers could be my ultimate favorite coyote gun for 300 yard plus shots.
The same gun with the 50 grain Berger might be my favorite calling setup for the inside 300 yards. Having said that I've used a fast twist 204 shooting the 55 this year a lot with great success
My idea of a perfect coyote gun is much different than most on this thread though....it seems with this bug bullets going that fast I'd have to guess there's quite a bit of fur damage and since I don't like sewing I like going smaller!
I think the 20-250 with 55 Bergers could be my ultimate favorite coyote gun for 300 yard plus shots.
The same gun with the 50 grain Berger might be my favorite calling setup for the inside 300 yards. Having said that I've used a fast twist 204 shooting the 55 this year a lot with great success
xs, that monster .20 would be a tough to beat, ballistically.
The thing about the smaller 'hotrods' is that the bullet itself becomes the limiting factor. IE, how will the RPM affect bullet integrity? How many rounds til bullets start going "poof"? More importantly, how will those factors affect terminal performance???
Last thing I wanna see is a bullet "splash" on impact. For a .20 cal pushing that hard, that becomes a very real possibility on a coyote sized critter. Sometimes things that look good on paper don't pan out as well on fur...
Getting back to the bigger hotrods. I wonder how an 80 Berger @ 4K from Dean's .22-06AI would do to a coyote? Wonder how many rounds it would take to rough the bore up enough to compromise the bullet's jacket enough to fail outright???
LOVE talking hotrods, but when it comes to coyote rifles, I'm sure we all can agree that we want them DEAD where they stand. From what little I've learned through fellow hunters & shooters, is that sometimes "too fast" can become counterproductive to getting a coyote DEAD. Especially so with the sub-calibers...
Naturally, the larger caliber hotrods might allow for more 'wiggle room', far as killing a coyote is concerned. But I still wonder if some mid weight bullets could be stressed to the point of no return?
What do you guys think?
The thing about the smaller 'hotrods' is that the bullet itself becomes the limiting factor. IE, how will the RPM affect bullet integrity? How many rounds til bullets start going "poof"? More importantly, how will those factors affect terminal performance???
Last thing I wanna see is a bullet "splash" on impact. For a .20 cal pushing that hard, that becomes a very real possibility on a coyote sized critter. Sometimes things that look good on paper don't pan out as well on fur...
Getting back to the bigger hotrods. I wonder how an 80 Berger @ 4K from Dean's .22-06AI would do to a coyote? Wonder how many rounds it would take to rough the bore up enough to compromise the bullet's jacket enough to fail outright???
LOVE talking hotrods, but when it comes to coyote rifles, I'm sure we all can agree that we want them DEAD where they stand. From what little I've learned through fellow hunters & shooters, is that sometimes "too fast" can become counterproductive to getting a coyote DEAD. Especially so with the sub-calibers...
Naturally, the larger caliber hotrods might allow for more 'wiggle room', far as killing a coyote is concerned. But I still wonder if some mid weight bullets could be stressed to the point of no return?
What do you guys think?
I know from experience that there is no such thing as to fast, when varmint or coyote hunting. What happens is the hydostatic shock is so violent when entering they animal, that they organs just vaporize "Red Mist" even if the bullet entry is not at an ideal spot, or even if the bullet goes right through they animal. What happens is they energy creates a shock wave and decimates they internal organs in all directions.
Dean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock
Dean
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock
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For those who might be interested here are a couple of whoppers, here is a pair of them they are both 50 cals.
On the right with the red tip is a 50 Thumper, it is made with 375 Ruger "Basic" brass it holds 100gr of powder.
Basic brass is not necked down it is a straight wall so wildcatters can go to town.
On the left is a 404 Jeffrey necked up to 50 cal it holds 120gr of powder, so some might say it is a 500 Jeffrey. Well it is not, you see the thing is with both these wildcats they are pistol 50 cal .501 instead of .510. So I call it a 500RUM. The reason I went that route is the wide selection of bullets from 275gr through 700gr and always available. The .510 rifle bullet selection is dismal to begin with and never in stock. Both headspace of the mouth of the case, I know these bullets have a low BC but who cares it is like being hit with a cinder block.LOL They are both 31" 20 twist and the 50 Thumper will launch a 300gr over 3000fps the 500 RUM somewhat higher.
Dean
PS: You always need a 223 for comparison.LOL
On the right with the red tip is a 50 Thumper, it is made with 375 Ruger "Basic" brass it holds 100gr of powder.
Basic brass is not necked down it is a straight wall so wildcatters can go to town.
On the left is a 404 Jeffrey necked up to 50 cal it holds 120gr of powder, so some might say it is a 500 Jeffrey. Well it is not, you see the thing is with both these wildcats they are pistol 50 cal .501 instead of .510. So I call it a 500RUM. The reason I went that route is the wide selection of bullets from 275gr through 700gr and always available. The .510 rifle bullet selection is dismal to begin with and never in stock. Both headspace of the mouth of the case, I know these bullets have a low BC but who cares it is like being hit with a cinder block.LOL They are both 31" 20 twist and the 50 Thumper will launch a 300gr over 3000fps the 500 RUM somewhat higher.
Dean
PS: You always need a 223 for comparison.LOL
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xswanted
Gold $$ Contributor
I've had 55s splash on entry only a handful of times since I've been using them in the 20-250. It's a damn mess when they do I'll say that.
I can't push them fast enough with my gun to have issues with bullet integrity but I did burn up the battle on the first one I had and it stopped shooting very quickly so who knows what the bullet looked like. They hit the target sideways though I know that.
When it worked right however it was dynamite in coyotes. Bang flop dead in most cases and usually just a small exit on broadside shots.
I can't push them fast enough with my gun to have issues with bullet integrity but I did burn up the battle on the first one I had and it stopped shooting very quickly so who knows what the bullet looked like. They hit the target sideways though I know that.
When it worked right however it was dynamite in coyotes. Bang flop dead in most cases and usually just a small exit on broadside shots.
Wouldn't it depend on if you sale the pelt or not. Larry
xswanted
Gold $$ Contributor
Yep, if a guy isn't selling pelts, then it doesn't matter at all!
I have a factory weatherby accumark 26" barrel lots of free bore no bullet will seat into the lans, i've been running RL 17 since it came on to the market. I quickly worked up some nice loads for the rifle, it has been bedded and has a trigger job. It shoots 100 gr BT at 3800 into .8 at 100 yds. i haven't chronographed 75 or 85 gr but they'd be moving along.Attachments
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OK Dean, so getting to back to the title of your thread, do you consider the 25 WSM/85 Nosler to be the best coyote round out there? I'm assuming this to mean the best long-range coyote round also?
I'd often wondered what the 115 Nosler would do myself aways out there.
Maybe I should have put a ? at they end of the title, I was just surprised at the performance of my latest wildcat. And have always had a soft spot for quarter bores, what is they ultimate coyote round. Man that debate - argument could go on for a while. As I am sure you know this forum is geared more toward a 10X ring @ 1Kyds, and I am not really interested in that type of shooting, I am not knocking it I can appreciate how much discipline it takes. I just not interested that's all, what get's me going is after spotting some thing in the distance whether a coyote, groundhog, ect. Is getting down and waiting for it to get into a position for me to be able to send off a round, all the while lying in the grass still wet from the dew, and having a rock that happen to be there when you lay down, digging into your rib and a tree root poking your appendix and still trying not to move. all his usually happens between 200 and 600yds so I build my rigs accordingly.
Dean
Dean
I share Dean's sentiments almost to the letter, with one exception regarding killing coyotes...
The 'wildcat experience' of loading & testing, the convenience of super flat trajectory & excellent ballistics are all priorities, as is hitting target "x" with the first shot. The exception being, for coyotes, I want to enjoy all of the above with a cartridge that allows for minimal recoil & muzzle blast. That precludes just about anything larger than .243 caliber, and even the larger .243 cals generate enough blast to ruin the show...
Only way to counteract recoil is to install a good brake, or build a heavier rifle to minimize felt recoil. Brakes on stand are rude & annoying, and too heavy a gun becomes a chore if you're making stands with any frequency.
Alas, this is why I'm stuck on hotrod .224s for coyote calling! The thrill lies in the challenge of calling and excitement of fooling them into rifle range. I could see where a larger caliber/heavier rifle would be cool for sniping/shooting over bait, or other fixed position type shooting, but that ain't how we roll. For calling, laser fast & flat trajectory, easy to carry, and minimal recoil are the recipe to having the "ultimate" coyote round. Fun quest, hope it never ends!!!
The 'wildcat experience' of loading & testing, the convenience of super flat trajectory & excellent ballistics are all priorities, as is hitting target "x" with the first shot. The exception being, for coyotes, I want to enjoy all of the above with a cartridge that allows for minimal recoil & muzzle blast. That precludes just about anything larger than .243 caliber, and even the larger .243 cals generate enough blast to ruin the show...
Only way to counteract recoil is to install a good brake, or build a heavier rifle to minimize felt recoil. Brakes on stand are rude & annoying, and too heavy a gun becomes a chore if you're making stands with any frequency.
Alas, this is why I'm stuck on hotrod .224s for coyote calling! The thrill lies in the challenge of calling and excitement of fooling them into rifle range. I could see where a larger caliber/heavier rifle would be cool for sniping/shooting over bait, or other fixed position type shooting, but that ain't how we roll. For calling, laser fast & flat trajectory, easy to carry, and minimal recoil are the recipe to having the "ultimate" coyote round. Fun quest, hope it never ends!!!
Hear, hear, well said guys! I'm also the type that fits into that type of coyote hunter category, mostly these days as a spot and stalk guy, but always looking for the better mouse trap. Always looking for the best way to get the bullet into a far off coyote's 6" vital zone in field conditions is the best of challenges/best of rewards IMO. This kinda' country below makes it difficult simply due to the sheer size of the ranches we hunt. Always looking for a better optic as well to try and see them as far out as possible--
6.5 WSM XP-100/140 A-Max at 2800/6.5-20 Leupy/Holland HUMR ART. This is my long-range coyote pistol, as big as i'll ever need for such an application. 400-some yd. spot and stalked coyote.
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