DaveTooley
Gold $$ Contributor
I'm done here.
True Bore Alignment System
- Thread starter urbanrifleman
- Start date
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Haas Tl-1 with True Bore.
Cigarcop
Silver $$ Contributor
I’m actually surprised you lasted this long Dave!!
dmoran
Donovan Moran
Over the last +11 years, I have had SSG chamber & crown 9 barrels, all of which were done in his True-Bore Alignment System on Haas TL1 CNC Lathes. The simplicity of the his system and stress free manor the system holds the work, makes so much sense to me, which leaves a lasting impression of perfection in my mind.
I have been privileged and blessed over the last +23 years to have several great gunsmiths do barrels for me, and have been honored to watch them perform their arts.
I've had barrels that were done in a "steady rest", some that were done through the spindle bore "rotationally", some that were done "adjusted outward with a spider", and these that were done in the True-Bore Alignment System.
I have seen excellent accuracy come from all these setups of chamber/fitting and believe all their arts are to be commended!!!
I am not saying one way or the other will produce more raw accuracy, but am saying the TBASystem is the most practical and stress free setup I have seen to holding and dialing in a barrel.
To emphasize on what I've seen while their, I will describe the process Nate used on the barrels:
After dialing the barrel in to less then 1/2 of 10-thousands across the 4" of his SSG range rods, he then puts a dial-indicator in the bore (near the proposed throat area) and again the indicator read less then 1/2 of 10-thousands. All adjustments were done to the TBASystem, none to the chuck.
Next the CNC cuts the threads and tenon. In that operation I've seen on the screen it's being done at around 950-RPM. Then the recess are cut, chamfers made, and chamber boring is done, again at similar speeds (a little less then 1000-rpm).
After these operations are complete, he re-inserts the SSG range rod and the indicator repeats to less then 1/2 of 10-thousands across the 4" rod, after which he again puts into the bores the indicator that repeats spot on the same as from the start.
The chambers I have watched him ream, resulted the same as the fittings, with 100% repeatable indicator readings to all the areas of the chamber that he reached for with the indicator stand.
From start to finish, I seen no movement of the parts being held, as proven by the before & after indicator readings. A very lasting impression to say the least !!!
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I have been privileged and blessed over the last +23 years to have several great gunsmiths do barrels for me, and have been honored to watch them perform their arts.
I've had barrels that were done in a "steady rest", some that were done through the spindle bore "rotationally", some that were done "adjusted outward with a spider", and these that were done in the True-Bore Alignment System.
I have seen excellent accuracy come from all these setups of chamber/fitting and believe all their arts are to be commended!!!
I am not saying one way or the other will produce more raw accuracy, but am saying the TBASystem is the most practical and stress free setup I have seen to holding and dialing in a barrel.
To emphasize on what I've seen while their, I will describe the process Nate used on the barrels:
After dialing the barrel in to less then 1/2 of 10-thousands across the 4" of his SSG range rods, he then puts a dial-indicator in the bore (near the proposed throat area) and again the indicator read less then 1/2 of 10-thousands. All adjustments were done to the TBASystem, none to the chuck.
Next the CNC cuts the threads and tenon. In that operation I've seen on the screen it's being done at around 950-RPM. Then the recess are cut, chamfers made, and chamber boring is done, again at similar speeds (a little less then 1000-rpm).
After these operations are complete, he re-inserts the SSG range rod and the indicator repeats to less then 1/2 of 10-thousands across the 4" rod, after which he again puts into the bores the indicator that repeats spot on the same as from the start.
The chambers I have watched him ream, resulted the same as the fittings, with 100% repeatable indicator readings to all the areas of the chamber that he reached for with the indicator stand.
From start to finish, I seen no movement of the parts being held, as proven by the before & after indicator readings. A very lasting impression to say the least !!!
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Some like vanilla, some like chocolate. Lots of ways to do this. None are wrong if the end product works.
jackieschmidt
Gold $$ Contributor
After following this entire thread, my thoughts in post #12 seem to be confirmed.
^^^^^^^
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
It is a ball and socket. Nate explained it on his website.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
Seems legit.
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tac284
Gold $$ Contributor
Just had mine apart yesterday to clean everything, the ductile iron plate (front) has a radius (ball) and the alloy steel side has a female socket. There used to be a video 10 years ago where Nate showed how good they mesh together, not sure if it’s still around or not.
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LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
Thanks!
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
This guy has a LOT of very nice videos showing the dialing in and cutting. He is using the True Bore.
His CNC is a Doosan Lynx 2100.
LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
@urbanrifleman I think Dave was only saying, it's not for him. Not that it would be impossible for him to use.
urbanrifleman
Site $$ Sponsor
I honestly have no idea what point was being made.
For me, it was very informative to do research on CNC barrel work. Now things make a lot more sense. Those videos are very enlightening. The True Bore obviously works.
It works in a similar manner as the faceplates we use on our 4th axis rotary tables in Haas vertical mills. The plate, about 1" thick, bolts to the face of the 4th axis, then the chuck is bolted to the plate. The plate has a register that fits inside the backside of the chuck. The chuck has allen screws that you adjust in or out to center against the register on the faceplate. With a precision Thompson bar in the chuck to indicate, you can adjust the run out of the chuck down to well below .0005" if you have the time to do so.
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Would I mount this to the chuck on my drill press or the table? Asking for a friend
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LVLAaron
Gold $$ Contributor
Most barrels are tapered, all the pivoting tKes place in the TBAS, the Barrel is held still in the jaws. If a sleeve was not used, then the jaws would only grip a .030 or so of the barrel and it would wobble around. I actually just finished a barrel with mine today, maybe this pic will be worth more than words.
Attachments
Ledd Slinger
Silver $$ Contributor
Love it! Very nice work and great thinking on those jaws. That's how my brain works. If I can think of a way to make a tool within my means that will allow me to accomplish a task easier or with more precision, I'll just make it.
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