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"The Copper Fouling Lie"

I just watched the first part, but that was enough. In that he failed to mention what the military standards are for accuracy for combat weapons, or the average number of rounds fired to kill or wound one enemy soldier. I agree that he seems to be a nice old guy, but on this subject he is full of it. IMO you can spend too much time watching Youtube and not enough doing your own testing. Do you own a bore scope? Are you aware that they have become very inexpensive? Copper fouling is directly related to rifle accuracy, but if you set your accuracy standards low enough, it becomes a lot less of an issue. The real question becomes what are you trying to accomplish. If you are trying to hit a buck at close range then perhaps he is right, but if you are trying to hit small targets, at longer distances, or shot small groups, then he is not.
 
My experience contradicts his opinion. I don’t shoot competition, I just shoot a lot and like small groups and long range stuff. Whether I’m trying to shoot a small group or make a hit way out there at some point the barrel will lose its best accuracy and require a clean. I have taken just the carbon out of many barrels and not had my accuracy return like it should, then I take the same barrel and remove the copper the best I can and accuracy returns. Some barrels are far more touchy than other barrels, especially factory barrels on factory rifles, some barrels last longer before needing a super scrub, every barrel is different but for me it’s has been very clear and at times frustrating that copper fouling is a factor. I think Boyd offered good advice, do your own experimentation and avoid some you tubers, even if they seem like a nice guy.

On another note I’ve always liked the accents you get from the northeast part of the country, would guess his from Maine or Upper NY - I’ve never been to either one but just taking a guess.
 
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I just watched the first part, but that was enough. In that he failed to mention what the military standards are for accuracy for combat weapons, or the average number of rounds fired to kill or wound one enemy soldier. I agree that he seems to be a nice old guy, but on this subject he is full of it. IMO you can spend too much time watching Youtube and not enough doing your own testing. Do you own a bore scope? Are you aware that they have become very inexpensive? Copper fouling is directly related to rifle accuracy, but if you set your accuracy standards low enough, it becomes a lot less of an issue. The real question becomes what are you trying to accomplish. If you are trying to hit a buck at close range then perhaps he is right, but if you are trying to hit small targets, at longer distances, or shot small groups, then he is not.
Yeah that's always a red flag for me .when someone starts talking about accuracy and they bring up the military :rolleyes:
Honestly the accuracy standards we have in the military ,in reality, arnt that impressive imo. I'll hva to find some of my old zero targets but I'd be getting told how well of a shot I was and I'd be looking at my 30m zero target like " I mean if you say so". That's not me trying to brag just saying what we considered acceptable accuracy isn't something I'd personally use a as some kinda guide you know. And I have to do hitting a full sized EPSIC out to 300m eleven with irons isn't hard with a half decent rifle. Definitely don't need a spotless clean bore all the time. But like I said it's a big target.
I was able to chat with one of the snipers at chow one time. Ends up most snipers guard side are big into precision shooting civilian side. Was asking about accuracy requirements and all and was very very surprised when he shrugged and said "MOA".
Think Phillip velyho ( think that's how you say his last name ) spoke about this , comparing a military sniper rifle and civilian precision rifle and how their two different animals.
Then the way we treaded our rifles ! I mean yeah we cleaned them but I would HATE to run a bore scope though one of the M4 or M16 barrels I had :oops: so yeah using "military standards" as a accuracy standaed is beyond a red flag for me.

A bore scope is on my wish list since I like buying used beater guns and I do bullet casting, I see it as a very good tool ,just what most call inexpensive and what I call inexpensive are two different things :D it's coming though

As far as YouTube, I quite enjoy it but, I'm not really always looking for definitives answers like it seems many do. More less I just like seeing what everyone does and why. I like hearing different ideas and thoughts about why this or that works or similar. Sometimes I'll just listen to something just for back ground noise . I mean honestly I'll happily listen to anyone from billy Joe talking about the .22lr he found in a barn to guys likes Erik Cortina talking about optimal barrel timing . Very rarely do I just believe everything I'm told though ( lotta folks can't stand me because of this :D ). Especially when it comes to what I'm doing. And when someone starts saying how they know something because their an "expert " or something or their calling themselves something like " the real gunsmith" I'm immediately questioning them.
In this case I quite enjoy watching and listening to this guy . He comes off as the old school be accurate but don't get crazy with it type . Which I feel is quite beneficial to most average guys just shooting deer at 60yd . But after listening to multiple interviews with high grade barrel manufacturers who say copper fouling isn't good and after seeing all the guys winning competitions where they are shooting groups in the 0's who say they do everything they can to eliminate any and all fouling ..... Well what he's saying just doesn't seem right.
One of my favorite quotes goes along the lines of
" Question everything even the existence of God for surely he most appreciate this more then blind followers"

Anyhow I'm babbling now at this point.:D
 
Watched a few of his videos and in some he does make good sense but with some I simply don't agree with such as this one posted. Several statements and points he makes is off the charts in a negative way as far as I am concerned. Copper fouling does happen and will hurt accuracy.
 
Good Lord. All you have to do is look at the bore when you're done shooting and you'll see copper. You don't even need a bore scope.

"I've experienced copper in barrels. Absolutely. That's not copper fouling." What the...?

I only finished this video because I wanted to see how bad it could get. Gents, it doesn't get much worse than this.

HOLD UP. I just got to the part where he has a Pateron account. People pay for this? Truly a remarkable age.

HOLD UP PART 2. I just realized that this is not in fact the dumbest thing I've seen today. I just read some of the Youtube comments.
 
Good Lord. All you have to do is look at the bore when you're done shooting and you'll see copper. You don't even need a bore scope.

"I've experienced copper in barrels. Absolutely. That's not copper fouling." What the...?

I only finished this video because I wanted to see how bad it could get. Gents, it doesn't get much worse than this.

HOLD UP. I just got to the part where he has a Pateron account. People pay for this? Truly a remarkable age.
But, but, but… if it’s on YouTube it must be true!!!
 
But, but, but… if it’s on YouTube it must be true!!!
I've seen some dumb stuff out there. But there's like 300 people thanking this joker for his wisdom in the comments section. Mind blown.

He could have said "copper fouling isn't that big a problem if you're happy with the accuracy you're getting. No need to scrub it clean every time you shoot". And I think we'd all agree.

Instead he denies copper fouling exists, says the military doesn't bother with copper solvents, then goes on to say what the military does do (CLP) doesn't work (he's actually right about that). So which is it? Does the military know what they're doing or not? Next he's saying copper in the bore isn't copper fouling, but never gets around to saying what copper fouling is, except that it's a lie. Next up: a random tangent about drywall screws followed by some grossly incorrect ideas about how copper solvent works and why it's bad for the barrel.

I know it's hard to tell these days, but is he trolling us?
 
There is a perspective problem with many stances within the shooting world (such as cleaning), that is a direct result of having a narrow perspective.

I came at this forum and at small arms from a heavy weapons world, where you will see things happen quickly and in an amplified way when compared to small arms with respect to certain problems like fouling.

However, that experience doesn't mean I have a clue about "all shooting".

To the contrary, most DoD interests (spending) have little to do with SOTA (State Of The Art) when it comes to accuracy from small arms.

It was an exception rather than the rule when the resources were directed to small arms accuracy topics.

Even then, little of what we knew from the study of vast quantities of infantry side arms and rifles or even the big guns, was of any help when the topic turned to real accuracy. In so many words, his assumption that the DoD simply must know something about cleaning barrels is where he is mistaken.

In many ways, what happens to duty weapons is far less sophisticated than folks know. His own statements on the mixed reviews of CLP should have been enough to steer his own logic on the idea the DoD gets it right.

At the 5:00 mark he stated that in his experience he may shoot the hotter loads towards the end of a 60 shot session and because those are often the better ones therefore it must follow that there is no such thing as copper fouling.

Maybe @damoncali is right... is he trolling for views by throwing out a controversial video?... or does he really have such a limited perspective that he really believes this?

It is a huge mistake to assume your narrow context of the shooting world is a general rule for all shooting no matter who you are.

I met some incredible folks in the business and some who you would call Renaissance Men, but none of them would claim to know it all either.

Maybe we just ignore it since the majority of the audience is really at the beginner level and will eventually out grow the YouTube lore. I scanned a few of his other videos and he does have some good basic stuff to share, but his audience would have to be limited to entry level topics or it won't take them very far. YMMV
 

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