Should LV and HV Classes Be Merged?

[Tim Singleton]

Not to be rude in any way. Looks like it's slowly dying out. And, there is a bit of arrogance on the part those of who know how to tune well and work the technical side of things well. Me included to some degree.

I don't know if its arrogance or not. Defiantly some air of accomplishment when you get to the point you can see things. When it takes going on 10 years in my case anyway to finally begin to see what my groups are telling me about tuning. Finally seeing wind patterns better anyway. My timing has improved
So for most, a hobby that may take 10 years to have some success isn't for everyone
Dumbing it down by merging classes or anything else wont help
Its a tough sport and not for everyone

 

[D Coots]

Amen, buddy. I've been a supporter of this for a long time. It's interesting that virtually all IBS and NBRSA members I talk with support this.

Al.....Memories of the split linger on for a few. That will change with time.

 

[AlNyhus]

Al.....Memories of the split linger on for a few. That will change with time.

The infamous "....schism" as Dave Brennan referred to it.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Al.....Memories of the split linger on for a few. That will change with time.

I hope you're right but it feels a lot like the powers that be within each respective org indoctrinate their beliefs into the ones that move up in the ranks of each org. Maybe a chicken or the egg scenario but nevertheless, I think it'll be quite a while before a merger, if ever.

 

[Tim Singleton]

Al.....Memories of the split linger on for a few. That will change with time.

Dave
I wasn't around for all that some of us don't have any idea what happened
I see no reason the two couldn't combine.

 

[D Coots]

I wasn't around either. I'm thinkin the new leadership at IBS may be open minded. Not sure about NBRSA...maybe declining membership will prod things along.

 

[gpoldblue]

I don't know if its arrogance or not. Defiantly some air of accomplishment when you get to the point you can see things. When it takes going on 10 years in my case anyway to finally begin to see what my groups are telling me about tuning. Finally seeing wind patterns better anyway. My timing has improved
So for most, a hobby that may take 10 years to have some success isn't for everyone
Dumbing it down by merging classes or anything else wont help
Its a tough sport and not for everyone

What should be done away with is the 100yd and the 200yd combined aggregate BS. Should be individual
100yd champion and an individual 200yd champion. Even better would be to do away with this "average"
stuff........shoot 5 five shot targets and your best(smallest) group is your score...Period...end of discussion....no averages. Then you'd find out who the better shooters are cause you sure would be trying harder rather than the attitude of well maybe I can make it up on the next target.

 

[afrench]

Dave
I wasn't around for all that some of us don't have any idea what happened
I see no reason the two couldn't combine.

I wasn't around then either but it seems one issue had something to do with a piece of land that was to be gifted to the NBRSA. It could be used as needed, even occasionally as a Nationals site. The land was in Oklahoma. Some shooters back east took it as (and incorrectly) that would be the only range to host the Nationals and felt that they were being burdened by having to travel that far every year. Apparently, the land was sold some time ago and has been developed.

 

[D Coots]

The better shooters win the 2, 3, and 4 gun at the group Nationals.

 

[gpoldblue]

The better shooters win the 2, 3, and 4 gun at the group Nationals.

There's been 2gun,3gun,and 4gun winners that didn't even win a single yardage or small group,but still got the overall win. It' all about averages....so they're the best average shooters.. Like NASCAR....you don't have to win a single race to win the championship......all you need is points.

 

[INShooter]

Reading all of the replies to this thread leaves me with a question. How many of the people responding have ever shot a NBRSA or IBS group match? Not trying to be seen as snobbish but many of the posts indicate a lack of understanding.

 

[Dimner]

If you want some feedback from 'new blood' that is on the cusp of starting to play or going to walk away

The top barriers to entry are:
1) Cost
2) Sanctioned events close to home.

Don't take cost to be as simple as, rifle, rests, and components.
It is the outlay of money to be competitive in a class of shooting that is oriented towards the new blood.

We hear about sporter classes and what not, but then I read about how seasoned shooters are dominating those classes as well. I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I don't want to enter a field of 25 other highly accomplished shooters with ace the equipment not including the rifle. Trying to budget for all of this is difficult and at least half the budget is focused on other things than the rifle. Probably even 70% is non-rifle costs.

If I enter a road race oriented for new racers, where we all drive honda civics... but the field is full pro nascar drivers, then it's no longer for new racers. New racers will not participate and goto PRS or 3 gun. But, I get the other side of the coin. Accomplished shooters want more formats to play in. I'd feel the exact same way.

I don't have solutions. Sorry guys. I just know that I'm not going to play a game where I have no chance of competing. However, there is also the chance that my perception of new blood competition formats is askew from reality. But that's the perception I have from what I have read and seen.

 

[Tim Singleton]

If you want some feedback from 'new blood' that is on the cusp of starting to play or going to walk away

The top barriers to entry are:
1) Cost
2) Sanctioned events close to home.

Don't take cost to be as simple as, rifle, rests, and components.
It is the outlay of money to be competitive in a class of shooting that is oriented towards the new blood.

We hear about sporter classes and what not, but then I read about how seasoned shooters are dominating those classes as well. I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I don't want to enter a field of 25 other highly accomplished shooters with ace the equipment not including the rifle. Trying to budget for all of this is difficult and at least half the budget is focused on other things than the rifle. Probably even 70% is non-rifle costs.

If I enter a road race oriented for new racers, where we all drive honda civics... but the field is full pro nascar drivers, then it's no longer for new racers. New racers will not participate and goto PRS or 3 gun. But, I get the other side of the coin. Accomplished shooters want more formats to play in. I'd feel the exact same way.

I don't have solutions. Sorry guys. I just know that I'm not going to play a game where I have no chance of competing. However, there is also the chance that my perception of new blood competition formats is askew from reality. But that's the perception I have from what I have read and seen.

Most everyone probably felt the same way. But you gotta jump in if your going to
Everyone had to pay there dues and spend the time to learn any type of BR shooting not just short range. Like i said earlier took me close to 10 years to begin to be somewhat competitive

 

[gpoldblue]

If you want some feedback from 'new blood' that is on the cusp of starting to play or going to walk away

The top barriers to entry are:
1) Cost
2) Sanctioned events close to home.

Don't take cost to be as simple as, rifle, rests, and components.
It is the outlay of money to be competitive in a class of shooting that is oriented towards the new blood.

We hear about sporter classes and what not, but then I read about how seasoned shooters are dominating those classes as well. I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I don't want to enter a field of 25 other highly accomplished shooters with ace the equipment not including the rifle. Trying to budget for all of this is difficult and at least half the budget is focused on other things than the rifle. Probably even 70% is non-rifle costs.

If I enter a road race oriented for new racers, where we all drive honda civics... but the field is full pro nascar drivers, then it's no longer for new racers. New racers will not participate and goto PRS or 3 gun. But, I get the other side of the coin. Accomplished shooters want more formats to play in. I'd feel the exact same way.

I don't have solutions. Sorry guys. I just know that I'm not going to play a game where I have no chance of competing. However, there is also the chance that my perception of new blood competition formats is askew from reality. But that's the perception I have from what I have read and seen.

Benchrest is an expensive and very time consuming sport to ever get close to being on a competetive level.
There's a LOT to be learned. The better shooters have spent years working on their skills. If you just want to walk in and be on a competitive level...go do something else....benchrest is not for you.

 

[Dimner]

Benchrest is an expensive and very time consuming sport to ever get close to being on a competetive level.
There's a LOT to be learned. The better shooters have spent years working on their skills. If you just want to walk in and be on a competitive level...go do something else....benchrest is not for you.

You will need to re-read what I wrote. I all want to be is competitive against new shooters.

So yeah, if I can't do that, why would I play?

 

[DaveTooley]

I started shooting BR in 1978. Barely had gas money to get to matches. Early 80's I was shooting close to 5,000 rounds a year between competition and practice. If you have the desire, the drive, you'll figure out how to make it work. We don't give out participation trophies.

 

[jelenko]

If you want some feedback from 'new blood' that is on the cusp of starting to play or going to walk away

The top barriers to entry are:
1) Cost
2) Sanctioned events close to home.

Don't take cost to be as simple as, rifle, rests, and components.
It is the outlay of money to be competitive in a class of shooting that is oriented towards the new blood.

We hear about sporter classes and what not, but then I read about how seasoned shooters are dominating those classes as well. I'm not looking for a free lunch, but I don't want to enter a field of 25 other highly accomplished shooters with ace the equipment not including the rifle. Trying to budget for all of this is difficult and at least half the budget is focused on other things than the rifle. Probably even 70% is non-rifle costs.

If I enter a road race oriented for new racers, where we all drive honda civics... but the field is full pro nascar drivers, then it's no longer for new racers. New racers will not participate and goto PRS or 3 gun. But, I get the other side of the coin. Accomplished shooters want more formats to play in. I'd feel the exact same way.

I don't have solutions. Sorry guys. I just know that I'm not going to play a game where I have no chance of competing. However, there is also the chance that my perception of new blood competition formats is askew from reality. But that's the perception I have from what I have read and seen.

I think this is like many sports. At first, you just compete with yourself - i.e., improving your personal best.

 

[Dimner]

I think this is like many sports. At first, you just compete with yourself - i.e., improving your personal best.

That's a very good idea and mindset. I think I'll try it.

 

[gpoldblue]

You will need to re-read what I wrote. I all want to be is competitive against new shooters.

So yeah, if I can't do that, why would I play?

I went to matches and found out how good I wasn't. I shoot against myself. I realized I just didn't have what it takes,but I have still learned a lot in the past 15 yrs on shooting 6PPC. I have learned more about reloading.tuning,and shooting over wind flags since I got my PPC's. I thoroughly enjoy the challenge.
Good luck in what ever you decide........stay safe.

 

[D Coots]

That's a very good idea and mindset. I think I'll try it.

When I started over 20 years ago every year I set 5 goals and kept them in my loading box. After a couple years I had a bet with Ron Hoehn, a HOF shooter on every agg, grand, and 2 gun. Kept me on my game I believe.