shooting 6.5 Creedmoor out of a .308 barrel

[Minshooter]

Confirming: Ammo boxes (and rifles) can look almost identical.

Federal 6.5 140gr Match ammo did chamber and fire in my M700 stock (at that time) .308 barrel.
No damage.
What was really surprising: I had a nine inch long 6.5 Cal. Suppressor attached.
After easily one of the most apprehensive in my life inspections: No damage to the suppressor, either.

TO BE CLEAR: THIS IS A PRECAUTIONARY POST, AND SPECIFICALLY IS NOT RECOMMENDED TO TRY.

UPDATED:
And, only because of posts saying it can't be done. This was about one year before Remington folded.
Because the barrel was clearly not aligned with the receiver (Used the full scope windage, and just got
the edge of paper), the rifle went back to Remington, and they replaced it with a completely new rifle.
So, I can't go back to test that rifle; maybe that chamber was as off as the barrel. But, it DID happen.
And, I do have the paperwork that shows the replacement.

 

[WC_Harris]

Yes, seriously...when you're digging a hole ya can't get out of, stop digging.
My new 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass is smaller than a go-gauge, to your slight advantage.
Test # 5 or so...further investigation: I have an old 308 win factory Remington take off barrel that a no- go gauge goes ...it's about .002" longer and body diameter is on the larger side...perfect for this test.
But with a new 6.5 Creedmoor case (smaller than a go gauge) pushed into the chamber it's right .150" protruding "out of battery" by depth mic. in an oversize chamber...and in a correct chamber max is only .006" longer, not .150"...Big problem. The body of the 6.5 Creedmoor is way too wide to fit in even an oversize 308 chamber, by .150" ...So the evidence shows it's impossible to chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor in a 308 chamber...A problem for your story.
So your expensive rifle chamber would have to be way out of spec...worse by enormous amount, over the worst factory chamber I've ever seen...hard to believe, as chamber reamers would lose diameter if worn, not be ground new so large as to be way out of print in shoulder/ body area. ...I've shot undersize bullets on purpose...7mm Rem Mag in 338 it headspaces off the belt...similar to your feat. A 2 foot wide tree was safe at like 30 yards...the 7mm bullets were very low velocity and tumbling as soon as they left the muzzle...it would be mathematical impossibility that the 6.5 bullets would retain velocity and maintain BC to hit a distant target. I Tried .451" jacketed pistol in 45-90, .458", only .007" smaller all hit the cardboard sideways at 30 yds in a 8" circle.
How accurate your rifle is, even when shooting appropriate 308 Win ammo, by your most competent shooter friend, and the barrel cleans easily, has nothing to do with it...plus the fired case evidence is "lost."
Investigation, critical analysis, math, science, and invention were also part of my job, as a machinist in Nuclear refueling, defense, aerospace, before computer and robotics contracts.
The Hanford N reactor, was likely my best invention, involved pulling spent fuel rods from that reactor core was solved, and instituted in many other electricity producing reactors ... ya don't get paid for these ideas " the company owns your ideas" they patent or use them and make millions. ... a bonus was given, and you keep your job. A machinist will have hundreds of workable inventions, ideas , & concepts, but the monetary reward will likely be a job well done. A machinist signs an employment contract to that effect, and is expected to improve engineering concepts ... cause he works in the floor in reality land, but has to think outside the box, as well.
This reactor is reasoponsible for 70% of the weapons grade material for our bombs...and has been torn down. Go see the old B reactor it's now a museum...the Nagasaki bomb was built there. It really old fashioned, reminds me of the old B17 bombers. The new neclear technology, Natrium nuclear power plant replacing coal plant in Wyoming will solve all the energy problems, joint venture GE/ Hitachi Nuclear.... they should have waited a few years to complete the green hwy before shutting down fossil fuels...Bill Gates has jumped on board the new nuclear train with hundreds of millions...so it should be a money maker and "green" .."Stock tip!" ....if he doesn't kill us with his vaccines first... okay, done with that.

Well, thanks for at least giving it some thought. It did in fact chamber and fire. I spoke to my instructor last night and he found it humorous, the people denying this story. The fact that people are puzzled tells me this is in fact a very rare event which also seems strange given how many people have both 308 and 6.5cm. Maybe Steyr has done something highly unusual with their design. That's probably it.
What I've learned from 2.5 years in the firearms world is that the people are extremely innovative and therefore the speciation over time is extreme, every branch has specialties within specialties within specialties. Its too much to learn, so my strategy is to save time by buying the best gear and instruction and cut to the chase, making accurate long distance shots on stationary targets, in low wind conditions, that may or may not translate into usable skill some day.

 

[DShortt]

I've a suggestion for the OP. Take an unfired .308 cartridge and an unfired 6.5 Creedmoor from the boxes you were using and stand them side by side. Take a photograph and post it on this forum. Then perhaps we can get to the bottom of this.
If you have any of the fired 6.5 cases it would be interesting to see them as well.

 

[FDCaptain]

MARK/LABEL YOUR BOXES!

 

[Ray123]

I've a suggestion for the OP. Take an unfired .308 cartridge and an unfired 6.5 Creedmoor from the boxes you were using and stand them side by side. Take a photograph and post it on this forum. Then perhaps we can get to the bottom of this.
If you have any of the fired 6.5 cases it would be interesting to see them as well.

The several new unfired & checked with a Wilson case gauge for fit Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor will not chamber in any of the 6 308 Winchesters I own.
One loose Remington factory that will take a no-go gauge and close, Will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor...3 custom bolt guns I chambered will NOTchamber a 6.5 Creedmoor.
And Proof Research made 308 AR 10 will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor, and a Schilen made 308 AR10 with head spaced bolt will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor. In all cases Shilen, Proof Research, Remington, and my 3 custom rifles will Not chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor... 4 different reamers, chambered to spec. Will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor. And are way out of battery and can Not fire the 6.5 cartridge and cases knocked out with a cleaning rod or pounded out in the case of the Remington extractor snapping over the case head. The only way to chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor in a standard 308 Chamber IS lube and run it through your trusty Redding body die to reduce the 6.5 Creedmoor cases a wider body preventing which it from chambering. Unless this is a 308 Ackley improved 308 chamber, I can not imagine any one using an out of print 308 reamer, especially in an expensive rifle. Ya just can't get a .461" 6.5 Creedmoor case shoulder in a .454" hole of the 308 win. In its standard Spec configuration. Conclusion no factory Spec 6.5 Creedmoor ammo will fit any factory in Spec 308 chamber.

 

[DShortt]

The several new unfired & checked with a Wilson case gauge for fit Lapua 6.5 Creedmoor will not chamber in any of the 6 308 Winchesters I own.
One loose Remington factory that will take a no-go gauge and close, Will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor...3 custom bolt guns I chambered will NOTchamber a 6.5 Creedmoor.
And Proof Research made 308 AR 10 will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor, and a Schilen made 308 AR10 with head spaced bolt will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor. In all cases Shilen, Proof Research, Remington, and my 3 custom rifles will Not chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor... 4 different reamers, chambered to spec. Will NOT chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor. And are way out of battery and can Not fire the 6.5 cartridge and cases knocked out with a cleaning rod or pounded out in the case of the Remington extractor snapping over the case head. The only way to chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor in a standard 308 Chamber IS lube and run it through your trusty Redding body die to reduce the 6.5 Creedmoor cases a wider body preventing which it from chambering. Unless this is a 308 Ackley improved 308 chamber, I can not imagine any one using an out of print 308 reamer, especially in an expensive rifle. Ya just can't get a .461" 6.5 Creedmoor case shoulder in a .454" hole of the 308 win. In its standard Spec configuration. Conclusion no factory Spec 6.5 Creedmoor ammo will fit any factory in Spec 308 chamber.

I agree with your statement. I'm just curious what the OP stuck in his rifle chamber because something isn't right. Maybe he's got some .260Rem and doesn't realize it, I can only guess. The only way I know to be sure is if he posts pictures.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

You must have the rifle, factory 308 and 6.5 ammo. Make a video, we all want to watch. I smell popcorn(with butter and salt).

 

[Ray123]

I agree with your statement. I'm just curious what the OP stuck in his rifle chamber because something isn't right. Maybe he's got some .260Rem and doesn't realize it, I can only guess. The only way I know to be sure is if he posts pictures.

Or...have a guy like me at his gun club loan him a new unfired, and checked out 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua case at the range and watch him try to chamber it, in his 308 chambered rifle....simple, easy. But it will not fit,.. so bring a cleaning rod to tap it out. For safety never force a loaded round...the taper makes it very hard to remove.
So let's randomly change the facts,... a 260? Don't think so, he already described the scene of the incident, as 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor boxes on the scene as looking very a smilar from the same manufacturer making them more easily to mix up when loading a rifle without glasses.
Why would you not have your prescription glasses on, when you know you can't see well without them, especially at the range? I always have mine. What about the other guys involved?...their vision?..., And all very experienced shooters,...but no one notices a cartridge mix up? Hard to believe. The Interjection of possibilities that do not fit statements made and are irrelevant to the facts or statements presented in this case. Was it a 260? a 7mm-08,? What could make this plausible? Was the rifle really chambered in 308 as stated?...maybe it was a different caliber? A similar rifle? Changing the facts to try to make the orginal statements true ...is indeed, a fairy tale, of no value. Case dismissed for lack of evidence.

 

[DShortt]

Or...have a guy like me at his gun club loan him a new unfired, and checked out 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua case at the range and watch him try to chamber it, in his 308 chambered rifle....simple, easy. But it will not fit,.. so bring a cleaning rod to tap it out. For safety never force a loaded round...the taper makes it very hard to remove.
So let's randomly change the facts,... a 260? Don't think so, he already described the scene of the incident, as 308 and 6.5 Creedmoor boxes on the scene as looking very a smilar from the same manufacturer making them more easily to mix up when loading a rifle without glasses.
Why would you not have your prescription glasses on, when you know you can't see well without them, especially at the range? I always have mine. What about the other guys involved?...their vision?..., And all very experienced shooters,...but no one notices a cartridge mix up? Hard to believe. The Interjection of possibilities that do not fit statements made and are irrelevant to the facts or statements presented in this case. Was it a 260? a 7mm-08,? What could make this plausible? Was the rifle really chambered in 308 as stated?...maybe it was a different caliber? A similar rifle? Changing the facts to try to make the orginal statements true ...is indeed, a fairy tale, of no value. Case dismissed for lack of evidence.

Again, I agree. The situation as explained is highly unlikely if not impossible so something isn't right. The OP already admitted that the original claim of hitting steel at 600 yards was incorrect so what other mistakes are involved?
I don't understand what's going on here but I'd like to hear 'the rest of the story' as Mr Harvey used to say.

 

[XTR]

Guy next to me at a match one day was having a hard time getting on target at 1000… till he realized the bullets were either 6 or 6.5 in a .284 barrel. He got up and called it s day. Don’t recall who or what, but we were on the line at Shreveport. I was too busy trying to figure out why my bullets were going upwind.

 

[WC_Harris]

I've a suggestion for the OP. Take an unfired .308 cartridge and an unfired 6.5 Creedmoor from the boxes you were using and stand them side by side. Take a photograph and post it on this forum. Then perhaps we can get to the bottom of this.
If you have any of the fired 6.5 cases it would be interesting to see them as well.

I took the photos. Do they tell you anything?

 

[WC_Harris]

Again, I agree. The situation as explained is highly unlikely if not impossible so something isn't right. The OP already admitted that the original claim of hitting steel at 600 yards was incorrect so what other mistakes are involved?
I don't understand what's going on here but I'd like to hear 'the rest of the story' as Mr Harvey used to say.

Well for one thing I tried to insert a 6.5cm round into the 308 rifle this afternoon as a sanity check and what I found was the bolt didn't want to close the last quarter inch or so. Now, I gently pushed the bolt, I was afraid to force it because it was a live round in the house, but the upshot is it didn't want to go in but felt like it might if i shoved hard enough. This tells me my marine instructor probably shoved it pretty hard to chamber the round, which wouldn't surprise me.

 

[WC_Harris]

6.5mm bullet bore is smaller than .308" bore so no harm done.
SAAMI mostly makes sure you cant chamber a bigger diameter caliber bullet down a a smaller bore.

I've a suggestion for the OP. Take an unfired .308 cartridge and an unfired 6.5 Creedmoor from the boxes you were using and stand them side by side. Take a photograph and post it on this forum. Then perhaps we can get to the bottom of this.
If you have any of the fired 6.5 cases it would be interesting to see them as well.

I think something's wrong with the rifle now. I cleaned it with bronze and nylon brushes and went to a local range today and don't see what I expect to see anymore shooting from 100 yards. The group over the black diamond is my normal group and as you can see in the colored photo from today I'm getting these pairs and then an outlier paired and that's exactly what I saw at the range last week after this happened. I saw a pair touching then the next pair touching but not in the same spot and then again. I don't get it, I'm not shanking these shots so far as I can tell, I'm usually consistent.

 

[Ray123]

Well the s

Again, I agree. The situation as explained is highly unlikely if not impossible so something isn't right. The OP already admitted that the original claim of hitting steel at 600 yards was incorrect so what other mistakes are involved?
I don't understand what's going on here but I'd like to hear 'the rest of the story' as Mr Harvey used to say.

Well, so much of "the story" has already fallen apart. Witnesses not able to confirm, but tend deny the original story when pushed with facts and ballistics science....the evidence (fired cartridge case) is lost. My actual experimentation & measurements makes the statements on chambering the 6.5 Creedmoor in a 308 chamber not plausible. There is no story...no actual evidence of any of it actually taking place, as first stated.
I'd give someone a hand if I could solve an actual problem... And I could solve this in minutes if he lived next door...I have 308 go & no go gauges along with qualified 6.5 Creedmoor brass, bore scope, and a 308 reamer, but ya can't help "a story" with these tools, ya need an actual incident.

 

[DShortt]

Well for one thing I tried to insert a 6.5cm round into the 308 rifle this afternoon as a sanity check and what I found was the bolt didn't want to close the last quarter inch or so. Now, I gently pushed the bolt, I was afraid to force it because it was a live round in the house, but the upshot is it didn't want to go in but felt like it might if i shoved hard enough. This tells me my marine instructor probably shoved it pretty hard to chamber the round, which wouldn't surprise me.

Looking at your photos if your instructor managed to get that bolt to close on a case like the one on the left then he must have hands like anvils.

 

[davidjoe]

I picked up several 6.5 Creedmoor brass cases at the range, also Hornady. I don’t shoot this round.

Reading this, I just wiped off one of the empty cases and tried to chamber it in a .308. It’s an absolutely hard stop with the lugs sticking out as pictured, short probably .75”.



Because a .308 is tapered, that already-hard stop this far out would simply become increasingly impossible to advance, well before the bolt could be closed.

IMO you would not be correct, that if you just pushed harder on your bolt handle, it will chamber.

Just as the rifling of a 308 would not have engaged and stabilized a 6.5, making it impossible to ring steel, whether anyone was mistaken about that or not, the round will not chamber.

You would have to beat the back of the bolt with a steel hammer, not even a rubber mallet, repeatedly, then beat the handle down.

It was not a 6.5 Creedmoor, that was tossed away.

 

[tthomp302]

I think something's wrong with the rifle now. I cleaned it with bronze and nylon brushes and went to a local range today and don't see what I expect to see anymore shooting from 100 yards. The group over the black diamond is my normal group and as you can see in the colored photo from today I'm getting these pairs and then an outlier paired and that's exactly what I saw at the range last week after this happened. I saw a pair touching then the next pair touching but not in the same spot and then again. I don't get it, I'm not shanking these shots so far as I can tell, I'm usually consistent. View attachment 1383212View attachment 1383211

What you’re seeing there is dispersion. It’s completely normal. 3 shot groups never show the whole picture.

 

[Ray123]

Well for one thing I tried to insert a 6.5cm round into the 308 rifle this afternoon as a sanity check and what I found was the bolt didn't want to close the last quarter inch or so. Now, I gently pushed the bolt, I was afraid to force it because it was a live round in the house, but the upshot is it didn't want to go in but felt like it might if i shoved hard enough. This tells me my marine instructor probably shoved it pretty hard to chamber the round, which wouldn't surprise me.

Do not use a loaded round for this experiment, it will stick in the chamber, causing a dangerous situation to remove, as you tear the rim off the cartridge case pounding the bolt open, leaving it still stuck, and loaded cartridge in the chamber.
You can not close the bolt on the .250" out of battery, marine or no, you are resizing the 6.5 Creedmoor case in the 308 chamber with no lube it will get stuck. I put a little extra force on one bolt gun the gap didn't decrease any discernible degree but I had to pound the bolt handle to get the empty case out, leaving the extractor area of the new rim burred and distorted.
No experienced shooter is going to try to force a cartridge .250" out of battery into a rifle chamber and pound on the bolt with his hand say 10 times and still not close the gap then pound on the bolt some more ....you'd notice such behavior...and experienced shooter seeing the rifle way out of battery would stop immediately, and inspect the situation, knowing something is definitely wrong.

 

[js2013]

....... This tells me my marine instructor probably shoved it pretty hard to chamber the round, which wouldn't surprise me.

If this is true you need a new instructor

 

[Old Navy]

I have a very hard time believing it hit steel at 600 yards.

It was a John Deere.