shooting 6.5 Creedmoor out of a .308 barrel

[LVLAaron]

Look up 300 BO in a 223 Reminton chamber. With certain bullets, the 300 will chamber in a 223 / 5.56 chamber, and fire, with less than stellar results....

Depends how you define stellar!

 

[Trophied]

As in seeing stars for a loooonnngg time!!!!!!

 

[wboggs]

Wow! A pretty good story. I have two Creedmoor's
And a bunch of 308s .... so let's test this theory... shall we?
First test ...2 new Lapua cases one 308 one 6 5 Creedmoor ...the datum line at the 30 degree shoulder drops exactly. 072" deeper for the Creedmoor...IF the 6.5 would chamber in the 308 ...it would be hard for the firing pin to reach it.
Test #2 prime the new Lapua brass ...in anticipation,.. chamber it.. and see if it sets off the primer ...right? But the 6.5 Creedmoor won't chamber in 308 rifle #1, or rifle #2, or rifle #3..had to tap the case out with a cleaning rod...it was about .250" from closing the bolt on one as I tried too hard to close the bolt. Had a Remington extractor pop over the case head but couldn't come close to chambering the 6.5, and pounded on the bolt handle to extract it. Wow, thats a problem...wonder why?

So let us measure...shall we? The 6.5 Creedmoor is .010 wider at the shoulder than the .308 Win Lapua cases....so a 6.5 Creedmoor can not chamber in.. a in print .308 standard chamber.
Wow, kind of a problem...

I have shot 7 mag in 338 mag on purpose. The velocity is really low like 1900 fps maybe and bullets missed a big tree at 30 yards.
Just recently shot a 45-90 with .451 pistol bullets instead of .458 rifle bullets ...results at 30 yards all the pistol bullets went sideways, in an 8" group, with a bullet only .007" smaller in diameter. So .264" in a .308" is an extreme difference and muzzle velocity would likely be msybe 1500 fps with all the powder gas blasting by the .264" bullet and the bullet start to tumble instantly, so no accuracy would begin at the muzzle.
If it was possible to chamber it... in an out of spec chamber and shoot it, it would likely strike 200 yards short 80 yards to one side and skip off the ground and into "the steel".

Don't worry I didn't give up yet! How about that trusty 308 body die ...let's set it up for 308 and check it to be sure it's dead on ...then body size down the 6.5 Creedmoor shoulder, with our new primed Lapua case...insert our full 308 body resized 6.5 case into the 308 chamber...Wow it fits...the bolt closed...but will it fire? Pull the trigger...bang! Yes it does...but open the bolt the 6.5 case is still way down in the chamber...tap it out with a cleaning rod...the primer is set out of the case head about .070".

So in conclusion the only way to get a 6.5 Creedmoor round into a 308 chamber is to body size the 6.5 Creedmoor in a 308 body die ...or take empty 6.5 Creedmoor cases and try to load them in 308 dies without noticing the problems you'd have, with that...like expanding the necks in one pass without collapsing the shoulder, splitting the necks, etc, not very likely.
I'm an experimenter with lots of tools at my disposal...guns are a hobbie... sometimes I'll take the time to consider and check out the possibilities...it has to be ....reasonable, and plausible. And if your 308 gun chambers 6.5 Creedmoor the chamber is out of spec at the shoulder...or shooting a 308 improved...but I'm not gonna check that as a possibility.
...And that concludes my experiment on that.
Also...I'd save the 308 and discard the 6.5 Creedmoor...I own and shoot both...but I'm not, because the 6.5 won't chamber in any of my 308s so the experiment wasn't a waste of time.
As always have fun...and don't you just love analytical thoughts and experinents?...Yeah, I'm outside the box, sometimes I can't find the door, and many times it's no fun in there...to boring.

Good analysis.

 

[WC_Harris]

Wow! A pretty good story. I have two Creedmoor's
And a bunch of 308s .... so let's test this theory... shall we?
First test ...2 new Lapua cases one 308 one 6 5 Creedmoor ...the datum line at the 30 degree shoulder drops exactly. 072" deeper for the Creedmoor...IF the 6.5 would chamber in the 308 ...it would be hard for the firing pin to reach it.
Test #2 prime the new Lapua brass ...in anticipation,.. chamber it.. and see if it sets off the primer ...right? But the 6.5 Creedmoor won't chamber in 308 rifle #1, or rifle #2, or rifle #3..had to tap the case out with a cleaning rod...it was about .250" from closing the bolt on one as I tried too hard to close the bolt. Had a Remington extractor pop over the case head but couldn't come close to chambering the 6.5, and pounded on the bolt handle to extract it. Wow, thats a problem...wonder why?

So let us measure...shall we? The 6.5 Creedmoor is .010 wider at the shoulder than the .308 Win Lapua cases....so a 6.5 Creedmoor can not chamber in.. a in print .308 standard chamber.
Wow, kind of a problem...

I have shot 7 mag in 338 mag on purpose. The velocity is really low like 1900 fps maybe and bullets missed a big tree at 30 yards.
Just recently shot a 45-90 with .451 pistol bullets instead of .458 rifle bullets ...results at 30 yards all the pistol bullets went sideways, in an 8" group, with a bullet only .007" smaller in diameter. So .264" in a .308" is an extreme difference and muzzle velocity would likely be msybe 1500 fps with all the powder gas blasting by the .264" bullet and the bullet start to tumble instantly, so no accuracy would begin at the muzzle.
If it was possible to chamber it... in an out of spec chamber and shoot it, it would likely strike 200 yards short 80 yards to one side and skip off the ground and into "the steel".

Don't worry I didn't give up yet! How about that trusty 308 body die ...let's set it up for 308 and check it to be sure it's dead on ...then body size down the 6.5 Creedmoor shoulder, with our new primed Lapua case...insert our full 308 body resized 6.5 case into the 308 chamber...Wow it fits...the bolt closed...but will it fire? Pull the trigger...bang! Yes it does...but open the bolt the 6.5 case is still way down in the chamber...tap it out with a cleaning rod...the primer is set out of the case head about .070".

So in conclusion the only way to get a 6.5 Creedmoor round into a 308 chamber is to body size the 6.5 Creedmoor in a 308 body die ...or take empty 6.5 Creedmoor cases and try to load them in 308 dies without noticing the problems you'd have, with that...like expanding the necks in one pass without collapsing the shoulder, splitting the necks, etc, not very likely.
I'm an experimenter with lots of tools at my disposal...guns are a hobbie... sometimes I'll take the time to consider and check out the possibilities...it has to be ....reasonable, and plausible. And if your 308 gun chambers 6.5 Creedmoor the chamber is out of spec at the shoulder...or shooting a 308 improved...but I'm not gonna check that as a possibility.
...And that concludes my experiment on that.
Also...I'd save the 308 and discard the 6.5 Creedmoor...I own and shoot both...but I'm not, because the 6.5 won't chamber in any of my 308s so the experiment wasn't a waste of time.
As always have fun...and don't you just love analytical thoughts and experinents?...Yeah, I'm outside the box, sometimes I can't find the door, and many times it's no fun in there...to boring.

Seriously? Your conclusion is the only way the 6.5cm could be fired is if the 308 is out of spec or "improved", whatever that means? I don't know enough to speak to this. Its a Steyr SSG 08 A1, $7K without a scope. I've shot .33 MOA groups with it, I think even .25 MOA if I'm not getting my memory mixed up with my 300 Norma mag. So whatever they did they did it right. I cleaned up the gun but didn't have copper removing solution, just used bore cleaner and nylon and brass brushes til it came out pretty clean. Will check the grouping maybe tomorrow. Thanks for your analysis.

 

[WC_Harris]

6.5mm bullet bore is smaller than .308" bore so no harm done.
SAAMI mostly makes sure you cant chamber a bigger diameter caliber bullet down a a smaller bore.

I hope I didn't damage it, its a $7K rifle, w/out scope. Will know this week.

 

[WC_Harris]

I agree. Saw a .264 mag fired in a .300 wm. The bullet hit the ground about 75 yds from the muzzle.
600 yd hit, no way.

LOL You guys are killing me. This happened and it did hit steel 600 yards away. Shot by a marine sniper who's been my instructor for 2.5 years. And I just came back from Thunder Ranch sniper course three weeks ago. This happened. And the ranch owner was spotting and told us it hit the steel.

 

[WC_Harris]

Put a couple of patches through the barrel to make sure nothing was left behind.
put the fired case on your keychain as a reminder not do do stupid shit.

It happened because Hornady Match ELD box for .308 is identical to Hornady Match ELD 6.5CM. Plus, and I'm laughing as I write this because I know it won't fly, but I didn't have my reading glasses and couldn't read the fine print on the box.

 

[Ray123]

Seriously? Your conclusion is the only way the 6.5cm could be fired is if the 308 is out of spec or "improved", whatever that means? I don't know enough to speak to this. Its a Steyr SSG 08 A1, $7K without a scope. I've shot .33 MOA groups with it, I think even .25 MOA if I'm not getting my memory mixed up with my 300 Norma mag. So whatever they did they did it right. I cleaned up the gun but didn't have copper removing solution, just used bore cleaner and nylon and brass brushes til it came out pretty clean. Will check the grouping maybe tomorrow. Thanks for your analysis.

Yes, seriously...when you're digging a hole ya can't get out of, stop digging.
My new 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass is smaller than a go-gauge, to your slight advantage.
Test # 5 or so...further investigation: I have an old 308 win factory Remington take off barrel that a no- go gauge goes ...it's about .002" longer and body diameter is on the larger side...perfect for this test.
But with a new 6.5 Creedmoor case (smaller than a go gauge) pushed into the chamber it's right .150" protruding "out of battery" by depth mic. in an oversize chamber...and in a correct chamber max is only .006" longer, not .150"...Big problem. The body of the 6.5 Creedmoor is way too wide to fit in even an oversize 308 chamber, by .150" ...So the evidence shows it's impossible to chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor in a 308 chamber...A problem for your story.
So your expensive rifle chamber would have to be way out of spec...worse by enormous amount, over the worst factory chamber I've ever seen...hard to believe, as chamber reamers would lose diameter if worn, not be ground new so large as to be way out of print in shoulder/ body area. ...I've shot undersize bullets on purpose...7mm Rem Mag in 338 it headspaces off the belt...similar to your feat. A 2 foot wide tree was safe at like 30 yards...the 7mm bullets were very low velocity and tumbling as soon as they left the muzzle...it would be mathematical impossibility that the 6.5 bullets would retain velocity and maintain BC to hit a distant target. I Tried .451" jacketed pistol in 45-90, .458", only .007" smaller all hit the cardboard sideways at 30 yds in a 8" circle.
How accurate your rifle is, even when shooting appropriate 308 Win ammo, by your most competent shooter friend, and the barrel cleans easily, has nothing to do with it...plus the fired case evidence is "lost."
Investigation, critical analysis, math, science, and invention were also part of my job, as a machinist in Nuclear refueling, defense, aerospace, before computer and robotics contracts.
The Hanford N reactor, was likely my best invention, involved pulling spent fuel rods from that reactor core was solved, and instituted in many other electricity producing reactors ... ya don't get paid for these ideas " the company owns your ideas" they patent or use them and make millions. ... a bonus was given, and you keep your job. A machinist will have hundreds of workable inventions, ideas , & concepts, but the monetary reward will likely be a job well done. A machinist signs an employment contract to that effect, and is expected to improve engineering concepts ... cause he works in the floor in reality land, but has to think outside the box, as well.
This reactor is reasoponsible for 70% of the weapons grade material for our bombs...and has been torn down. Go see the old B reactor it's now a museum...the Nagasaki bomb was built there. It really old fashioned, reminds me of the old B17 bombers. The new neclear technology, Natrium nuclear power plant replacing coal plant in Wyoming will solve all the energy problems, joint venture GE/ Hitachi Nuclear.... they should have waited a few years to complete the green hwy before shutting down fossil fuels...Bill Gates has jumped on board the new nuclear train with hundreds of millions...so it should be a money maker and "green" .."Stock tip!" ....if he doesn't kill us with his vaccines first... okay, done with that.

 

[Jeff Porter]

May I offer a possible explanation that satisfies all accounts ? Shooter fires shot, observers report “hit” on steel. Shooter ejects case and says that didn’t feel right. Picks up a 6.5 CM brass off of the bench instead of the .308 he had fired and starts this thread.

 

[DShortt]

May I offer a possible explanation that satisfies all accounts ? Shooter fires shot, observers report “hit” on steel. Shooter ejects case and says that didn’t feel right. Picks up a 6.5 CM brass off of the bench instead of the .308 he had fired and starts this thread.

The first plausible explanation I've seen in this thread.

 

[WC_Harris]

Yes, seriously...when you're digging a hole ya can't get out of, stop digging.
My new 6.5 Creedmoor Lapua brass is smaller than a go-gauge, to your slight advantage.
Test # 5 or so...further investigation: I have an old 308 win factory Remington take off barrel that a no- go gauge goes ...it's about .002" longer and body diameter is on the larger side...perfect for this test.
But with a new 6.5 Creedmoor case (smaller than a go gauge) pushed into the chamber it's right .150" protruding "out of battery" by depth mic. in an oversize chamber...and in a correct chamber max is only .006" longer, not .150"...Big problem. The body of the 6.5 Creedmoor is way too wide to fit in even an oversize 308 chamber, by .150" ...So the evidence shows it's impossible to chamber a 6.5 Creedmoor in a 308 chamber...A problem for your story.
So your expensive rifle chamber would have to be way out of spec...worse by enormous amount, over the worst factory chamber I've ever seen...hard to believe, as chamber reamers would lose diameter if worn, not be ground new so large as to be way out of print in shoulder/ body area. ...I've shot undersize bullets on purpose...7mm Rem Mag in 338 it headspaces off the belt...similar to your feat. A 2 foot wide tree was safe at like 30 yards...the 7mm bullets were very low velocity and tumbling as soon as they left the muzzle...it would be mathematical impossibility that the 6.5 bullets would retain velocity and maintain BC to hit a distant target. I Tried .451" jacketed pistol in 45-90, .458", only .007" smaller all hit the cardboard sideways at 30 yds in a 8" circle.
How accurate your rifle is, even when shooting appropriate 308 Win ammo, by your most competent shooter friend, and the barrel cleans easily, has nothing to do with it...plus the fired case evidence is "lost."
Investigation, critical analysis, math, science, and invention were also part of my job, as a machinist in Nuclear refueling, defense, aerospace, before computer and robotics contracts.
The Hanford N reactor, was likely my best invention, involved pulling spent fuel rods from that reactor core was solved, and instituted in many other electricity producing reactors ... ya don't get paid for these ideas " the company owns your ideas" they patent or use them and make millions. ... a bonus was given, and you keep your job. A machinist will have hundreds of workable inventions, ideas , & concepts, but the monetary reward will likely be a job well done. A machinist signs an employment contract to that effect, and is expected to improve engineering concepts ... cause he works in the floor in reality land, but has to think outside the box, as well.
This reactor is reasoponsible for 70% of the weapons grade material for our bombs...and has been torn down. Go see the old B reactor it's now a museum...the Nagasaki bomb was built there. It really old fashioned, reminds me of the old B17 bombers. The new neclear technology, Natrium nuclear power plant replacing coal plant in Wyoming will solve all the energy problems, joint venture GE/ Hitachi Nuclear.... they should have waited a few years to complete the green hwy before shutting down fossil fuels...Bill Gates has jumped on board the new nuclear train with hundreds of millions...so it should be a money maker and "green" .."Stock tip!" ....if he doesn't kill us with his vaccines first... okay, done with that.

Well something is wrong somewhere. The only part of my story that wasn't true was, according to my instructor, even though the ranch owner did in fact say he hit at 600 yards, my instructor said they discussed later after I left and the ranch owner said he may have been mistaken about that. My instructor is sure he didn't hit at 600 yards and said actually it was more like a partial powder burn that lobbed the bullet out onto the ground. But the round did chamber, that's a fact, and he doesn't know how it was able to fire, or maybe it was a partial primer strike, he said.

 

[WC_Harris]

I have a very hard time believing it hit steel at 600 yards.

I was wrong about that. I discussed again with my instructor last night. The ranch owner, the spotter, said he landed on steel at the time it happened but after I left my instructor questioned him about that and he agreed he could be mistaken, his scope is not very good. My instructor said it was some sort of partial powder burn or partial primer strike and the bullet lobbed out onto the ground, was his impression of the shot. The round was in fact chambered and bolt closed, but he doesn't know how the striker hit the primer, he said he would not have expected that.

 

[WC_Harris]

The first plausible explanation I've seen in this thread.

No, the 6.5cm was shot. I was the one who loaded the magazine and my instructor chambered the round.

 

[WC_Harris]

I aint buying this story. Sorry.

Actually, now I remember more. It was me who loaded the magazine and I fired three or four shots that didn't land which surprised us all because I'm a decent shot. That's when my instructor said to let him get on the gun and see what's wrong. He took one shot and said something's wrong and then looked at the spent cartridge and realized I was shooting the wrong cartridge. So actually this happened three or four times because those were all 6.5cm rounds. My spotter, the ranch owner, was wrong about landing on steel 600 yards away, he told my instructor after I had left, after my instructor expressed doubt about that. The owner doesn't have the greatest scope.

 

[WC_Harris]

You heard it at 600 yrds. with ear muffs, etc. ? I can't even hear hits at 100-200. Amazing.

I use Sordin Supreme Pro X ear protection over ear plugs. If everyone is quiet when it comes back I have no problem hearing the return even out to 1.25 miles when shooting my 300 Norma mag. 1000 yards is pretty faint with the 308.

 

[effendude]

Here's what I read: You're paying an instructor to teach/coach you to shoot long range after you bought a $7,000 rifle (without the scope) that is capable of .25MOA accuracy with factory Hornady ammo. The instructor gets paid and/or tipped based on how well you learn and shoot. Of course you hit the steel at 600 yards, the instructor is a former sniper, a naturally gifted shooter, a great teacher with a long history of teaching shooters, who has taught you how to shoot long range. Send me some $$$ and I'll tell you how good you shot too.
Scott

 

[WC_Harris]

6.5 Creed case will not fit in a .308 chamber. MAYBE with really undersize factory ammo in a loose as a goose 308 chamber... but I'm not buyin this.

Okay, but supposing factory Hornady ammo DID fit in the 308. What does that mean? Its an extremely accurate and expensive 308 sniper rifle, a Steyr. What would they have done for that to happen? And why? Maybe to handle a variety of 308 handloads?

 

[WC_Harris]

Here's what I read: You're paying an instructor to teach/coach you to shoot long range after you bought a $7,000 rifle (without the scope) that is capable of .25MOA accuracy with factory Hornady ammo. The instructor gets paid and/or tipped based on how well you learn and shoot. Of course you hit the steel at 600 yards, the instructor is a former sniper, a naturally gifted shooter, a great teacher with a long history of teaching shooters, who has taught you how to shoot long range. Send me some $$$ and I'll tell you how good you shot too.
Scott

It didn't hit 600 yards, spotter was mistaken. Instructor disputed that after I left.

 

[WC_Harris]

LOL You guys are killing me. This happened and it did hit steel 600 yards away. Shot by a marine sniper who's been my instructor for 2.5 years. And I just came back from Thunder Ranch sniper course three weeks ago. This happened. And the ranch owner was spotting and told us it hit the steel.

No, I was wrong. I confirmed last night with the instructor who said it didn't go that far and the spotter admitted he could be wrong in a discussion after I left the range.

 

[DShortt]